Ep 129: Final Fantasy 7 (Part 11) - Odds, Ends and Random Thoughts Part Deux

[00:00:14] Hello and welcome to episode 129 of A Gamer Looks At 40, I'm Bill Tucker. And we have reached the end of the road. This long, long Final Fantasy 7 journey. We have been plotting for what feels like three months? Because yeah, it's been about three months.

[00:00:36] It finally comes to a close today with the second half of our Odds and Ends episode. I was going to do this as one large one, but I can't in good conscience release three hour episodes. The format of this show just doesn't lend itself to that.

[00:00:51] So here we are with the back half of that episode. Starting us off is Julian from the Stage Select Podcast talking about Materion and a bunch of other random things. And then Kyle from the RPG show shares some poignant and terrifying memories. Hey, have you ever summoned Bahamut Neo? Yeah, right. Exactly. Was it Knights of the Round? Is that the thing? Well, I never got Knights of the Round. I never did all that stuff.

[00:01:18] I was obviously a guy when I played it, of course. But it's interesting about the Materion system. I am not somebody who really, and I've said this before in this Final Fantasy series, I never historically loved the job system. I liked having my characters with roles and I never liked the idea of potentially doing the wrong choice and spending the time leveling something the wrong way.

[00:01:43] For some reason, though, again, as a 28, 90 year old, when I played Final Fantasy VII, I really dug the Materion system because I was in the mood for the time for something simple, but gave me the illusion of complexity. I felt like I had control over a very simple system that made sense. It wasn't crunchy. It wasn't like, you know, relics and espers and five different things.

[00:02:09] And you're right as we're talking about it. There really is no, it goes completely opposite of the job system, really. There is no job per se. Like you said, it's a blank slate of characters ability wise. However, I like the Materion system in that it was very simple and it gave me the feeling of complexity. Maybe. I don't know. I always felt like I liked that.

[00:02:33] And I'm not someone who typically really digs, really diving into my characters stats and trying to optimize it unless it's Fallout. That's a different story. But other than that, it's not my thing. And I just like playing with what I'm presented sometimes. But for me, it was a nice balance as a casual kind of Final Fantasy fan. Yeah, I think back then, I really like, I understood the basics of the Materion system, but I definitely didn't get into the nitty gritty of it.

[00:03:01] Like I've since learned that I missed out on a lot of like really interesting things that you can do with combinations of certain material and stuff like that. And if you really are dedicated to it, you can kind of finagle each character into a role if you set them up just so. But I did not grok that at the time. Well, not to go too far afield on this conversation, but I just want to touch on one thing because I do think it's interesting.

[00:03:25] In those days, in those kind of like mid-90s to 2000 era, it was almost like a console overload. Because I remember in GamePro, and I was a big GamePro person because that's what my parents got me a subscription to. I always liked EGM better, but I was a GamePro person, so I had. But they always had a section for like the new console rumors.

[00:03:49] So having the idea of just another, Sony has a new console, Philips has a console, this place has a console, the new Sega console, there's this add-on. So we were kind of console crazy in that era before everything just became three players basically. And so, yeah, like you said, it wasn't a far, far, far flung thought to think, oh, this is just another 3DO or a CD-i.

[00:04:13] Yeah, go look at the cover of an issue of EGM from around like 1995 and look at the platforms that they cover on the top of it. Because they would have them listed up like right above the title. And it's so many things.

[00:04:44] Think about Final Fantasy VII. Again, it was your first experience, first time you played it. What about the, do you ever remember any standout moments for you that really kind of stick out to you from Final Fantasy VII? That like kind of changed the way you thought about games? Because Final Fantasy as a series was very good at that. At least for me, right? Like changing paradigms of games. Is there any moments of VII specifically for you? Yeah, there are.

[00:05:11] So actually I have a couple that I wrote up here specifically for VII Tactics and actually three that I can cover quickly. And it's more of a way that I do talk about the games, but it's more like my perspective at the time around it and kind of how things formulated. So I'll start with VII. No surprise, Final Fantasy VII is Final Fantasy VII. People like it. It's really good. I was about 11 when it came out. A lot of fond memories of the game.

[00:05:37] All sorts of crazy ones, like I said, with my friend at the sleepover. I remember as a young teenager, I really couldn't sleep very well. So for some reason I decided, you know what's a good idea? Let's get to level 99 before the first boss. See how far I can get in that. Just in case. Level 43. Level 43 before my memory card wiped. And then that was enough of that. No! But you know, this was... Exactly. Things like that. They just happen sometimes.

[00:06:07] Boy, actually, funnily enough, I probably beat the World of Balance on Final Fantasy VI eight or nine times before I finally beat the whole game because of lost discs or saves. Funny story. But going back to... So your consoles are cursed. That's what you're basically trying to tell me. You have cursed... A little bit, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was playing on a Super Nintendo that I still actually have sitting behind me right now. Nice. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:37] But for VII, you know, that was 1998. I guess a little bit of a different time now. But I can remember rooting around on, like, Angel Fire websites looking for fan theories and looking for, like, weapon fight strategies for the first time. You make a bunch of save files with friends. Changing the background colors was pretty fun for a lot of us. Yes. You know, you just mean, like, I'm going to do this one magenta or whatever and, you know, like, change those up.

[00:07:06] Hot seating the controllers to level up materia. Final Fantasy VII, actually, for me, was a big one. I made an account on Game Epic use specifically to post on their chat rooms for it. So, way back in the day, I would do the trivia contests they'd have. Screen name Omega Monkey. This is going way back. So, if anyone remembers that, you know, good for you. But just a lot of different fond memories of this game. And, you know, I got married, got kids now, got my wife to play it a couple of years ago.

[00:07:36] And I was just, you know, bringing things all together. It's like, it's nice to just look back and smile and see that this one of these games that I played as a kid is still around 20 plus years later at this point. Or, you know, so it's just kind of cool to think about that. That, you know, the story was so engrossing at the time. I was just finding able to ways to make it entertaining, you know, even now to play. And I still go back to it just to have the nostalgia around it. Yeah, 7 is really good about that.

[00:08:04] And 7 is an interesting artifact. I played 7 as an adult. I never had a PlayStation. So, for me, it was 6. And then, you know, Square went the Sony route. And that was the end of it for me until the PS2 and X. So, I missed out on like 7, 8, and 9. I played 7 as an adult and could still really appreciate it. But I never had that initial, other than going to friends' houses and seeing the opening scenes and just jaw dropped at the visual marvel of all of it.

[00:08:53] Coming up next is the Let's Play Princess of the Nerds, a broadcast podcast where we talk about the sensational music of Final Fantasy 7. An aspect we have not talked enough about, honestly. Along with some gameplay elements, ultimate weapons, and some final thoughts. Obviously, Final Fantasy 7 is a huge experience. Final Fantasy 7 was a phenomenon. Like, that made the PlayStation 1 legitimate.

[00:09:19] It was a quantum leap technologically from 6. I mean, you know, again, as much as I adore 6, 6 is one of my favorite gaming experiences, full stop. 7 was just a quantum leap. What about 7 do you, if you have to pick like one or two things that really grabs you as a young person, as a kid. Like, here's why I love this game. And then maybe expand on to why you still love it now. I'd love to hear that.

[00:09:49] There's a lot, I know. But if we could just like nail down again. Put yourself in the mind of a kid. One thing I can think of is there's a specific song in Final Fantasy 7, and it's not the one you're thinking of, I can guarantee you. That has stuck with me over the years, and I even learned to play a little bit of it on the guitar when I was learning the guitar. Ooh, okay. And that is Interrupted by Fireworks, the song that plays when you and Aerith go on the Gold Saucer Day.

[00:10:18] That was the first time, besides Mega Man X4's Frost Wall or Stage 2, where I went, oh, video game music can do an emotion in musical form. That's very interesting. The music is always, I mean, I can't imagine any Final Fantasy game with bad music. That is a very emotional scene. And music definitely carries that because, again, your characters, they're not voiced.

[00:10:47] So you're just kind of reading text and just sharing a moment with those two characters as they kind of float in this moment of calm and fun. And it's a carnival, right? Like, I always say folks emotions of kind of that young love almost. It really is a very poignant scene, and I love how the music definitely carries that. It's load-bearing in really any Final Fantasy, but especially at that moment. It definitely, I want to say at some points it even feels a little bit foreboding.

[00:11:17] Hmm, okay. And nowadays, God, with Rebirth coming out sometime at the end of this year, if they recreate that scene... Have you played the modern one, Final Fantasy VII remake? I can't get around to it. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. I have not, but no. There's a little bit of a thing in the game. I hope I'm not spoiling too much. That's okay.

[00:11:46] But it's called remake, but it's less of a remake and more of a pseudo-sequel. There's clear hints that say that both Aerith and Sephiroth are... Everything's going back to .0, or I guess .5, because Crisis Core still exists as a prequel. And... I'm trying to think of the best way to word this. Okay.

[00:12:16] Take a time. They definitely feel on and off like they are aware of the original timeline. That they are from a point post-Advent Children in the livestream and somehow use the livestream to go back in time. Because you get flash forwards and all these other little things in remake.

[00:12:37] And now that I'm hearing it interrupted by fireworks in my head, that scene is going to be so much more foreboding in Rebirth than it originally was. But at the same time, there's a high chance that they originally planned. And maybe it was planned, and that's what you're supposed to feel in the original. That there is that foreboding.

[00:13:02] Because while it is this sort of happy little romance song, there is a little bit of melancholy mixed in there. That's a really good point. Because I was just kind of scrubbing through it very quickly while you were talking. There is this... I don't want to say sense of dread, but it's not the sort of thing you would expect. Like, you wouldn't play this on a date.

[00:13:27] It's happy notes, but they're played in a slower, more somber style. Yes. It's almost like... It's not in a minor key, I don't think. But it has that kind of vibe, right? Where it's in a key where it has a bit of that satin. It kind of lilts a bit. It lilts. It kind of like... It doesn't bounce. It wanders and staggers there for a little bit. Yes. It wanders and staggers, yes.

[00:13:53] Where it gets 66% or 75% through the song. It goes... Ba-da-da. Ba-da-da-da. Yeah. That's definitely a lot more somber and melancholy than I would expect from a love song. Which the rest of the song does feel at at points. Especially when there's this cheery carnival going on. Oh, I know. It's so great.

[00:14:23] It's happiness. Ha-ha-ha. But this kind of understanding... And I think thematically it matches too because there's... At that point, everyone kind of understands what's going to happen. We don't obviously know what's going to happen. But there is an adventure ahead. There is some... So this is like a respite. The whole gold saucer is like a respite. We're going to take a breather break. Just enjoy ourselves before the next leg of this journey of the characters are on. So... And it's not too far after that that you go to the Temple of the Ancients, right?

[00:14:52] And Kate Sith does his little sacrifice for the black materia. Yeah. It's not that far later. So it's just kind of one of those... It's the big... It's like the final... Not final fun moment. But this is the moment... The calm before the storm, I think. And I think that song captures that really well. So... Because it's a beautiful song. And it's... It's one of the greats for a reason. Yeah. I also want to talk a bit about the mechanics of the game as well. Because I really think...

[00:15:20] I really love the way Final Fantasy VII plays. Again, turn-based, of course. ATB, of course. But I think the materia system is one of my favorite... Leveling systems or progression systems in the entire franchise. I always found it extremely elegant and interesting. What's your take on materia? They're right. They're still great. To this day. And they still work... Even in Rebirth, they knew not to mess with something that already worked. You still have the green materia, which is your basic spells. You have blue materia, which is kind of like... You know...

[00:15:52] I don't want to say blue is basic abilities. Because I think that's yellow. Red materia is your summons. Right. Purple materia is your weird stuff. Like, make this fire spell into my basic attack. Right. It will attack everyone! And stuff like that. They knew not to mess with a bad thing. Or with a great thing. And then the best part is the fact that they themselves level up. That you get AP. That's true.

[00:16:21] That's actually a good point, too. Everything kind of levels itself. I just like the idea that the customization that you can do is really interesting. You can have different slots and armor and weapons. And you can really customize what your character does. I think it's a better melding, honestly, than Final Fantasy VI. Where Final Fantasy VI, basically everyone ends up the same, essentially. Right? You just equip espers. Everyone has the same magic. And away you go. Everybody has the same magic. But their stat's going to be slightly different.

[00:16:49] Because the whole espers also give you a weird stat bonus. Oh man, a plus one to strength per level while it's still equipped. Right. Right. But no one I knew did that, though, as a kid. No. Nobody knows that. Kind of like how... So, like, later on I bought the book. I think it's Prima Guides for Final Fantasy VII. And even that doesn't mention some of the other stuff that's in the game that's very well hidden.

[00:17:17] Like the ultimate weapons having these weird stat bonus things. Oh, if you have full health with Cloud while he's wielding his ultimate weapon, you do double damage. Stuff like that isn't in the guide. That's weird. That's crazy. That's what I bought the guide for. For all the advantages. You have to be there. Please. That's funny. Yeah, because we didn't have the internet back. Well, we kind of did. But it wasn't that big. Yeah, it was the internet that we have now.

[00:17:47] The capital T-H-E. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it plays fun. I think it's a really fun playing game. And I just love the customization of materia where you really can craft your characters in a more, I'd say, obvious way than espers. Because espers always were very, again, it was like a hidden thing. Like I had no idea growing up you could be, every time you leveled there was like a plus one speed if you had this on, right? Because it didn't matter. You just went, okay, now everybody's going to have Kira.

[00:18:16] Okay, now everybody's going to have Ultima. Right. And have Rise. Surprise. Yep. Everyone has to have these certain spells and that's what we used it for. But you can also break Final Fantasy VI if you know what you're doing with the espers too. Like you can create some pretty overpowered characters using those stat boosts. Don't tell me this. That's what I hear. I haven't gone through and done that, but that's what I've heard through my exhaustive Final Fantasy VI conversations.

[00:18:43] What else about Final Fantasy VII really strikes you as important or just meaningful? It's the first time that we ever had the limit system. Yes, you're right. That is a good point. Yeah, the first ever limit system. And already they were kind of messing with it because you had the sadness status effect, which made it feel so much slower. And then you had the berserk, or not the berserk, because berserk makes you attack. No, that's confusion. Yeah, it's berserk.

[00:19:13] The berserk meter makes your limit fill a lot faster, but you're taking more damage as a result because it's 100% based or mostly based off of how much damage you're taking. It's a retaliation attack. And how diverse they made that, especially with gate slith. Oh, have slot machines, have some dice rolls.

[00:19:40] I love a good dice roll in the midst of a game, although it's funny because, you know, games are based off of that. But it's for me, I'm like, I need a guarantee. I can't risk this turn on a dice roll or a coin flip. Ah, Chocobo Bill, you need to play Dicey Dungeons. What is Dicey Dungeons? Dicey Dungeons is a roguelike where the game automatically rolls the die for you and then says, okay, where would you like the damage to go?

[00:20:08] So you're putting on equipment that is like a boomerang. It does double damage, but you take the normal type of damage. So if you put the six into the boomerang, it'll do 12 damage to the enemy, but you're going to take six damage. That sounds so weird and strange and kind of cool. It is really good. That sounds really cool, actually. That sounds lots left to randomness.

[00:20:37] But yeah, that sounds like a very freeing game where I could just like not worry as much about that sort of thing. Just like, okay, randomness. I kind of dig that.

[00:21:03] Any other big moments you remember fondly from that, even as an adult when you play it again? I remember going around the world trying to chase after Ultimate Weapon.

[00:21:14] And the very first time we actually see Ultimate Weapon in, I think, Medeal, the whole fissure in the earth, or I guess Gaia in this situation, opening up, swallowing both Tifa and a kind of vegetable state cloud into the actual lifestream where they're just reliving the memories and trying to piece together Cloud's psyche.

[00:21:41] Yeah, that is definitely a big moment. It's an impactful one as well. Cloud as a character. What's your take on Cloud as a character? Cloud as an interesting character because in a lot of ways, Cloud isn't a character. Yeah, that's fair. Cloud as a character. He's barely a soldier.

[00:22:02] He's just this guy who's kind of implanted himself with Zack's consciousness or memory. It's so hard to explain and figure that out, like what they're actually going for even today. It's almost like a forced – I'm trying to think of a good way of describing that Cloud. It's a forced identity stealing, almost. Yeah.

[00:22:31] Like he didn't mean to steal Zack's identity, but he kind of did. But he didn't mean to. Not his fault. It just happened. It's very strange. And now half the time, Zack's talking in his head. And that's the coolest thing is even at the very beginning of the game when you're setting up the bomb, those text bubbles are showing up. But they're not even in text bubbles. It's just floating text. That's a good point. It's a very good point. That's interesting.

[00:22:58] I love the – I love how – essentially, Cloud has always been to me a weird character to kind of identify with because he's so varied and interesting. But as I've kind of been researching and reviewing Final Fantasy VII, I really dig that idea of he's not a pawn in this. He has some agency, and towards the end, he finally gets that drive. Like, yes, let's save the world, like the hero vibe. But it takes forever for him to get to that point. He can be pretty insufferable at times.

[00:23:28] But when you understand why, it makes all the sense in the world. He has two people talking in his head at all times. I'd be cranky too. He's got the Sephiroth, and he's got the Zack. Yeah. It's wild. It's a very interesting character as a main protagonist. And would you consider Cloud to be that main central protagonist? I don't know.

[00:23:51] I wouldn't consider this game to really have a central protagonist in essence. Because at a point it becomes Aerith. There's a good amount of time when we don't even have anybody except for really Tifa and some other characters. So Tifa becomes the main protagonist for a while. I think it's more just about the party. Yeah.

[00:24:19] I think it's about the overall story and the overall themes that it's trying to convey. For sure. I mean, sure, you have the final battle. But the final battle cutscene, whatever you want to call it. But it's less of Cloud cementing himself as a main character and more of Cloud cementing himself as an individual apart from Zack and Sephiroth. Right. Yes. And that's kind of the main theme of that ending where, yes, Cloud is now his own person.

[00:24:50] Officially his own person. He is no longer tied to these two people. So, yeah, any other final thoughts on Final Fantasy VII? Man, some of the minigames in the Gold Sox are... Like, I love the Gold Sox theme. I can stand around for hours in Final Fantasy XIV just listening to that while doing something else instead of actually playing Final Fantasy XIV. But at the end of the day, while a part of me really wants to go, Yay, the boxing minigame.

[00:25:19] It's just rock, paper, scissors. It's R&J. Oh, interesting. Interesting. So there's no skill involved? No. In the original version of the boxing minigame where you can uppercut or low sweep the leg and stuff, it was just R&J. You pressed a button and hoped that, you know, rock beats scissors. Wow. In the new one, in Rebirth, it's punch out. Oh, that's so good. I like that. That actually sounds really fun.

[00:25:49] It just sounds really fun and good. It's punch out, but with frame buffering, you can pause buffer it. Are you serious? Yeah. That's funny. They allow it. That's funny. That's really funny. That's crazy. Okay. Well, I guess they figured it's just a minigame. That's just a minigame. It's fine. Let them. You can cheat your way through if you want. Yeah. Man, you have to play Rebirth at some point. They added something that is,

[00:26:19] I don't want to say it elevates it over the original game, but as somebody who does not like Final Fantasy VIII and tried super hard, but loves Triple Triad and is going out of her way to try to collect all the cards in XIV. Oh, man. They made a new card game and it's addictive. And if they ever make a physical copy, I'm screwed. Did they make a card game for XIV? They made a, so that in XIV,

[00:26:48] you can play Triple Triad and collect cards. Oh, boy. Much like in VIII. Oh, boy. And there's even a mount for collecting all the cards. There's a floating card magic carpet. But in VII Rebirth, they added a card game to Final Fantasy VII. Wow. Interesting. And it is one of the greatest things that Square ever did. And if they make a physical copy, they will get my money. You're doomed. That's the end of it. Oh, yeah. I'm dead.

[00:27:18] That's so good. Next up on the show is Matt and Jeff of the Fun and Games podcast, where they discuss making friends through Final Fantasy VII and some comments on the original versus the remake. Jeff, you mentioned that you made friends through Final Fantasy VII. I'd love to hear

[00:27:48] some of those recollections if you could. I mean, for one thing, I was already well-established as a nerd in my school system. So, like, at least once, a kid that I kind of talked to called my house to get help with Final Fantasy VII. I remember talking somebody through the train graveyard because, you know, sixth grade, that actually was confusing as hell. It was tricky. Yeah. It was tricky. But in particular, one of my lifelong friends,

[00:28:18] we were very much, we were in sports for reasons that nowadays mystify me. We were very much outfield children. And I know this because that's where they put us during the, like, tryouts in that league to see whether you're on the good teams or the bad teams. And so, I'm in the outfield, and there's this kid also in the outfield who is wearing a Final Fantasy VII shirt and a hat for the local laser tag arena. And I basically was like, you look like a walking advertisement for all the shit I love. I'm Jeff.

[00:28:51] And, yeah, no, that was sixth grade, and that was my friend Kieran. He and I have, like, I am now Uncle Jeff to his kids. We see each other pretty regularly, and I do have about half of his old video game collection in my collection now. But also, like, he introduced me to a lot of cool PS1 RPGs. He's the reason I fell in love with Final Fantasy Tactics. He introduced me to it. He gave me a lot of his old guidebooks for things, so I actually knew what the hell I was doing in a bunch of these games.

[00:29:20] And as well as returning the favor, he discovered how much I really liked grinding in RPGs. And so he gave me his memory card for the weekend to be like, I'm towards the end, but I don't think I'm strong enough. See what you can do. I still have that file. Nice. I went to town on it. Over the weekend, I got everybody their level four limit break. I maxed out a bunch of materia. I, through sheer leveling, got a full set of Master Materia,

[00:29:50] and then beat Emerald and Ruby Weapon. Not that weekend, but like, over the course of a month, because again, I was 11, 12, what time, what job did I have to do? I have ADHD. I wasn't doing my homework. I was playing Final Fantasy VII. That's awesome. That is so cool. And you still have a connection with Kieran. That's really great. I do. I love that. That's great. I love those little stories of connections through games. And the more I do this Final Fantasy series, especially in these

[00:30:19] single player ones, the more I'm realizing how communal it really was anyway. Yeah. Oh yeah, all the rumors that went on with this one and everybody trying to figure stuff out. Another friend of mine that I've lost touch with had a GameShark and we just kept breaking the game. I saw my first developer room in Final Fantasy VII. that's cool. Yeah. That's super cool. Made no sense to us. We had no idea what we were doing, but we'd break pyramids and level up and we liked being level 99. So, you know. Nice. That's great. That's very cool.

[00:30:49] Very, very cool. Matt, what about you? Did you have any friends who were into it or connections like that? So, my lifelong friend Matt Karen, who I've known since we were both in, I think I was in, he was in first grade and I was in second grade. We've known each other since then. And he was the one who I was talking about earlier who got a copy of VII for his PlayStation. I didn't have a PlayStation yet and we just sat together while he played it. And like, we'd pass the controller back and forth. I'd get to like do some of the battles, but I mostly just watched him because I didn't understand how Materia or any of this other stuff worked.

[00:31:21] But, and so we spent long days and nights just playing that game together, playing many games together. and it came full circle last, two years ago, whenever it was, when Remake came out and he finally got to play it. Like, we were on the phone a bunch and he was just saying, I can't believe they did this. Oh, this version of U.V. is so much better than the other one. And like, just reminiscing about how much we love the original game and like, what we do love and don't love about the remake. And like, he is,

[00:31:50] he is a ending hater of Remake. I love the ending of Remake, but like, I like that we still talk about games so much to this day, Mass Effect, whatever else. And it's because of that bond from back then from playing games like Resident Evil 2 in the dark together and the first time Mr. X came through the wall and we jumped, almost jumped through the ceiling. Like, but like, the games like Final Fantasy 7 forged our specific friendship and like,

[00:32:20] to the point now where he texted me the other day, hey, did you know there's a Devil May Cry anime coming out? And I was like, yeah, I do know, but thank you for mentioning it because he remembers I love those games. That's awesome. So, yeah, and it definitely, like we've been playing games since before that because we'd known each other so long, but I feel like Final Fantasy 7 was one of those first games that we like got lost in together and really kind of bonded our friendship.

[00:32:43] If you were to talk to somebody of your age or even younger, probably come up with someone younger who says, do I have to play Final Fantasy 7? I'll just play the remake. Do I have to play the original? What would you say to that person in support of

[00:33:12] playing the original? I think it's, I think the remakes are complementary pieces. Yes. I don't think they're replacements to the original. But what, so what would you, what rationale or reasoning would you give to somebody to play this for the first time? Like even like the original remake or the Steam version, that's the original. What would you say? I mean, I think for me my pitch would be that the remake and Rebirth, because they have different names now and whatever Re 3 is, the,

[00:33:42] they'll just call it Re 3. That's perfect. The Rilogy. The Rilogy. The Rilogy. It's taking a microscope to it, right? And you're getting an appreciation for these characters in these moments that you can appreciate if you've never played. And I know folks who've only played the remake trilogy or the duology at this point and appreciate it. But it's for the same reason that I say you have to start with Yakuza 0 when you play the Yakuza franchise. It's not required. Jeff didn't start there. Jeff started with Like a Dragon. There are other

[00:34:12] jumping in points, but starting with 0 means you understand these characters so when you get to the man who erased his name, which is one of my favorites in the series because of how it ends, the impact is in full. And I feel like remake and Rebirth are the same. You will appreciate them because they're spectacles and they're done well, but I think you will truly love them if you give the original a chance first. Also, like my other pitch would be the new versions have accessibility options. They have done a great job of adding ways

[00:34:41] to turn off random battles, to make your limit break fill, like all of these other things that make games that are a struggle easier for other folks. The reason I got through Final Fantasy IX on the Switch is because I could turn off random battles towards the end of the game to just get to where I needed to. There's a thing where you're pressing one of the thumbsticks and you do max damage automatically. And so if I'm stuck on a boss fight and I really just want to see how the game ends, I can do that. The important thing about Final Fantasy VII is its story. The other stuff it does is great.

[00:35:11] One of my favorite combat and magic systems in games, I love the materia system, but I think the narrative is what's worth experiencing because the materia system in the new games is something about this original version that if you just jump to the remakes, the remake-ification of it, you'll miss something. It's not like an absolute loss. It's not absolute zero. You can still appreciate those new games,

[00:35:41] but I think if you want the full experience of what Final Fantasy VII has to offer, play VII, play Crisis Core, then play the remake. I think if you don't play Dirge of Cerberus first, I have such a soft spot for that game. It's so bad. I know, I know. Me too, me too. It's so good. It's so bad. It is better than history sets. That's true. Okay. Is it a game that I think people need to go back and play? Absolutely not. Not necessarily.

[00:36:09] There's some cool progression systems in there. There's actually some cool gameplay ideas, and it is a fun supplementary piece. But seriously, I will say, I echo Matt's sentiment that if you just want to play remake, rebirth, retake the planet, whatever they're going to call the third one, that's fine, and that's great. But yeah, it is built on the idea of pushing off of the anchor that is the original. And so you can still watch the trajectory, but if you want to see

[00:36:39] where it started and what it's trying to do against, then that's good. I played Final Fantasy VII not knowing how much of Final Fantasy V it actually cribbed until I played Final Fantasy V a few years ago. And I still love both games. But, and so that's a point in favor if you don't have to. But, there's no maps. There's no quest markers. And I love those. But it allows also for a sense of discovery. Because again, I think the pieces are all there. I've done a lot

[00:37:09] in Final Fantasy VII. If there is a single game that I can gun to my head give a three hour TED talk about, it would be Final Fantasy VII. I've still never done any optional Fort Condor battles. Interesting. But you could go and play them. One day I'll go. I've never gotten Yuffie's joke weapon. I've gotten everybody else's. I've gotten the umbrella for Aerith. But that's Gold Saucer. And that's a shoot-em-up that happens in the middle of things. So let's have fun with that. So there is something to discover there. And because

[00:37:39] there is the remakes are built with guardrails in mind. Not to say that you can't break it. But to say we've had years to think about this. So all of the weird little corners of the original are so fun to explore and so interesting to see the holes in the jank and the rough ragged edges. The materia system out of any progression system is probably my favorite to break. And not in a way that makes you all powerful

[00:38:08] but in a way that can make all kinds of just ridiculous things happen. The materia system is one of the most interesting distillations of the job class system of old and of new that Final Fantasy has done that lets you kind of pop a few rocks into your equipment and suddenly you've changed jobs. And also mixing and matching and specializing. I had the Versus Books strategy guide to Final Fantasy 7. And that in the back had all kinds of cool they called them crazy

[00:38:38] materia combos. And one pointed out that linked materia if it's linked to multiple instances of the same spell all of them will trigger when you cast that spell. So if you have fire linked to all materia linked to quadra magic linked to added cut linked to steel as well and you've leveled them all up to fire too. One casting of fire too will go off four times hit everybody you will hit everybody and steal from everybody. One casting

[00:39:07] only costs you what quadra magic would do. Is that a good idea? I don't know but can you do it? Yes! Yes. And so there can be little bits of that exploration in the remakes but they've kind of done a really good job of making materia feel precious in those games in the remakes and letting certain things be interesting but in moving away from that it's a little different. And then on a personal note enemy skill materia is my

[00:39:37] favorite instance of blue magic in all of final fantasy and I love blue magic. That's not that's not for everybody to convince you but I'm just sharing love here. That's fair and I know people if you like blue magic you love blue magic. It's like a type of person who's just like it's like an astrological sign you're just inclined to just really dig blue magic. I think that's really fun and really good. I love job classes in final fantasy

[00:40:07] I love them but if I'm ever saying there's something better than blue mages or monks someone has murdered me and taken my skin and is walking around as me because that is no longer me. It's invasion of the body snatchers and they didn't do their research. They didn't look at your save file. They have no idea. I throw away weapons and I want to get hit with the weirdest spell so I can cast them.

[00:40:42] Time once again to say thank you thank you thank you to the following amazing individuals who support A Gamer Looks 40 on Patreon. Starting with Lindsay Harney, Philip Becker, Joey Coro, Terry Kinnair, Greg Seward of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos, Games with Coffee, The Let's Play Princess, BT Goebbels, Tim Knowles formerly of The Letest, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Seth Sergil of the All-N Media Network, and finally the

[00:41:11] editor extraordinaire Pete Harney. If you would like to join these wonderful humans and their financial support of A Gamer Looks at 40, swing on over to patreon.com forward slash agamerlooksat4040 check out the tiers and sign up today. And if not, no big deal, a rating or review on your pod player of choice is always greatly appreciated. Let's jump back into the episode.

[00:41:45] Coming up next is one of many Mikes. First Mike on our list is the one and only Mike Albertson of Games My Mom Found. Good friend of the show and I think good friend in general. We've been doing podcast stuff for years and years now and I'm always lucky when he shows up and chats with me. It's always a good time with some really good stories. This week we discussed the unofficial players guides, some movie spinoffs, and something called Before Crisis that

[00:42:15] was recorded so long ago. I don't even know what that means. So we are going to find out together right here on episode 129. Let's give it a listen. What about the game stuck out to you when you played it? For now I guess we can just talk about it. You haven't played it since 2006? No, I've been meaning to go back to it for Games My Mom Found but I just haven't been able to get myself to want to put it on the schedule. That's understandable. That's understandable. I mean that's totally fair.

[00:42:45] Don't want to play it again. No, that's... I was going to say what stands out to you about that game but does anything stand out to you? I mean for now I think it's just the fact that it has such a history in the zeitgeist and it's so important to so many people that I feel like I should replay it and catalog my experience because that's what I do now apparently. But like... That is what you do. That is what you do. Not something that I really want to go back to. It wasn't... I mean there's

[00:43:15] the remake and there's other stuff but I'm like I don't know. I just don't... The drive isn't there yet for me. There's other RPGs that I love more from PS1 that won't do as good on the show but I'd rather replay those which I have. So... Do you remember how you felt when you first saw Aerith get run through by the evil evil Sephiroth? Unfortunately somebody who was flipping through the pages already knew it was coming so it didn't really bother me that much because I already knew she was going to die so I'm like well we just won't use her then because she's going to die.

[00:43:45] Oh it was so funny that's right you had the guy at your side yeah. I was also introduced to FF4 before this where everybody dies so I'm like oh this is this part of the game like it wasn't That's very true. It doesn't... It didn't hit me like a ton of bricks like it should because I'd already played 4 and 6 well no one really dies in 6 unless you're stupid and leave shadow which I did as a kid so it just didn't affect me because of 4 so it wasn't a big deal plus I was you know I was reading. I heard the whole guide front to back more than once before I played

[00:44:13] this game so fear. No that makes total sense that makes sense I find that very interesting. What other memories of Final Fantasy 7 do you have other than Red Lobster? I love that that's so that's such a good I like that. It's so funny because it's like we didn't go that often I don't remember why we were going I just remember calling my friend first going hey I beat F7 I beat Sephiroth and then us leaving and being all excited and that's yeah I don't really

[00:44:41] have I mean it's a game that's still important to me because it's important to life but I think also because it's it's also attached to a memory of an ex that I think I think less of the game than two because that can happen because it's very associated with an ex of mine which I still talk to because she's my son's mother so we still talk but right right I think that's part of it too. Interesting I find it's it's really interesting when when games connect up with people in our past you know like I think there there is

[00:45:11] something there to be said and it can definitely color our opinions of the games as well I think that's I think that's natural it's also too much hype I end up I usually will like something less if everybody is telling me it's the greatest thing ever especially when I I hold six to such a high standard and I think six is one of the best games ever for Final Fantasy and people because this is brand spanking new at the time at the time you know the time it came out and the fact that it's such such a new departure and it is a lot of people's

[00:45:41] first RPG and first Final Fantasy people hold us higher I guess I get irritated even though it doesn't it's irrelevant but yeah yeah so when you finally did get it they finally start playing it obviously you're blown away by the graphics did a lot of the story go over your head as a as a as a nine-year-old slash ten-year-old I don't know because I don't I don't remember I I had one back to this game later on so I can't like remember my initial memories of the story I know I also was reading a guide so everything was to me in a book too right sure everything was kind of spelled out and you're

[00:46:11] just kind of following along with the guy so read the guides front and back before I love the fact you had both the official and the unofficial guide too that's pretty great the unofficial came with a badass poster that I framed years later I framed it in 2009 oh that's cool or eight no maybe oh seven but I mean 10 years later I framed it unfortunately I lost it in one of my moves and I'm still no well I if you if you

[00:46:40] find that guide you can find it on eBay oh yeah for a hundred and ninety dollars the 1997 vintage unauthorized final fantasy 7 ultimate guide there's also errors in that poster by the way the poster is partly the cover but there are errors in the drawing that aren't accurate to what came out but I don't remember what they are but I know there were errors that's pretty legit that's pretty fun how fun is that yeah and then of course I actually when my ex-girlfriend moved back to the place where I used to live I used to live with her

[00:47:10] family I asked her at one point hey that poster still around she's like no I haven't seen it I'm like god damn she's like that's mine anyway I'm like doesn't matter but she didn't have it so I'm like sure it is I'm taking it if it's there I'll come visit you but she never saw it so it got thrown away most likely that's a bummer that is a total but I was a little sad because I was like I want to put this up yeah put up so that'd be that's a really cool little piece of uh memorabilia I'm trying to find actual picture of of said poster I'm finding some I'm not I don't know I don't know but anyway

[00:47:40] anyway but yeah I haven't seen it ever ever since besides that it's just from that guy yeah we can talk about I've seen have been children it's been a yeah we talk have been children I I mean I don't know where I'm gonna fit it in but it'll we can definitely just talk about it I don't have

[00:48:09] a whole lot but with ab and children I remember that I had pre-ordered it at one game stop in mall America but then I was moving back to Wisconsin so I was leaving Minnesota I remember we we I think we either had to we had to get our five dollars back because it was a long time when I didn't have any money yes and then I remember so that I moved my remember they were of course they were upset I'm like no I'm still gonna get it I just have to go to a different game stop and then I remember reserving it there at a game stop near me and I got it the day it came out the

[00:48:39] think DVDs I don't I wouldn't have had a blu-ray at the time yet and I watched it a couple times with my girlfriend at the time because she was she loved the movie I haven't seen it since then as a kid I want to go back and watch it again it actually was in theaters earlier this year and I was gonna go but it was on a Thursday it was on a day where I was already recording so I'm like well I guess I'll just record and not go because my wife's like I don't really care about this and I thought about like I'm like well she'll go with me anyway I dragged all sorts of

[00:49:08] movies but I just I was recording so I'm like well I'll just record instead fuck it so I haven't seen it again since but I do want to watch it at some point but I remember the movie just being super cool and it exists I remember it being very visually overstimulating I remember this being again not somebody who not knowing the this and I think I saw it I pretty sure I saw it after I had played it for the first played Final Fantasy 7 for the first time when I was like 28 or 29 like I played I played Final Fantasy 7 on

[00:49:37] the PS3 was one of the classics you down like the downloaded classics PS3 PS1 classics on the PS3 and I played it there and then I sang let me watch Advent Children and I remember watching it's like what is happening in this movie and I remember being very confused especially said I just played Final Fantasy 7 I was like okay I I know these characters but nothing is like hitting me I just I feel like I'm just getting assaulted my senses are

[00:50:06] getting assaulted did I do a review of that it's very much just just cool action scene that's what that movie is and by the way it's currently on YouTube apparently no is it really I wasn't looking for it but I found it but I have not I do want to rewatch it I want to cover it again I want to cover for the first time my big excitement with it when it came out was I was hoping that we would get an FF7 sequel that we would get more and we never did I want to

[00:50:36] say in the timeline dirge I think dirge happens after but I cannot remember anymore but unfortunately like after dirge and crisis core and having children like FF7 just we never got more I mean we got the remake now but they're essentially retreading old ground but different but I get I was reviewing movies at the time so I actually have a review of Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children I review I reviewed it on was it

[00:51:07] April 8th 2011 which tracks that's when I was running a lot of reviews at the time I gave it a five out of ten I gave it a five you might have not known this there also is an OVA called the last order Final Fantasy 7 that came out around the same time that Advent Children came out which is also canon which is a story about Zack and Cloud it's a 30 minute OVA that came out that I didn't see till years later right that

[00:51:36] kind of just show some of the stuff that happened to them at Nibbleheem which is in the game but you get more of it again it was all during this resurgence when I really thought we'd get more and then it must have not done good enough in marketing because we didn't get more but it's a really cool anime if you're in love with FF7 it's also on YouTube gotcha so this so Advent Children came out after Spirits Within yes it was this okay what what I remember I saw Spirits Within 2 I don't remember anything about it I

[00:52:05] remember nothing about Spirits Within that's it came out in 2001 I like that movie actually I I it's I appreciate it for what it is I don't remember a thing about it it's not Final Fantasy I mean there's it's it's let's take a science fiction property let's take a property throw a name on it that's known and just produce something I'll give you my last line of the review I wrote I'm looking at it now as we as we speak I keep everything it says in the end Advent

[00:52:34] children succeeds only on the nostalgia of the viewer and as much as I enjoyed seeing cloud and the crew together from one more battle in the life stream against the evil Sephiroth I can't honestly recommend this movie unless you know what the hell a Sephiroth is in the first place yeah it's a very audience you're not wrong it's not a movie that you can like watch and appreciate it's a movie made for people that are in that world and it's just cloud and see from the Turks that's right oh man I'm just I'm

[00:53:04] just like looking at this those aren't the Turks I mean the Turks are in it but that's not if the three guys on motorcycles are not the Turks oh see I dumb dumb bill from I can't tell you they are because I don't remember but I know they're not the Turks there's something to do with Sephiroth but I can't remember I don't remember it's very weird Durge the Servers talks a little bit about it because I think Durge takes place I used to know all this like what took place in what order and there's also crisis core which is the prequel to what Zack did

[00:53:33] and it talks all and that's a PS was a PSP only game then got re-released recently I don't know if anyone else mentioned this there also is a mobile Japan only game called ever I think it's called ever crisis which I have played a little of yep no ever crisis is the current mobile game that just came out that is on steam and PC which I did not play very much of but there's a mobile game that came out which is god I cannot find the name I apologize

[00:54:03] maybe it was ever crisis before that they remade it but all I know that you played as the Turks I actually had downloaded an RPG maker of that game which adds story that fits into FF7 from before seven starts and I was playing a bunch of it but then it crashed on me but that also exists out there too which I don't know if you also mentioned that it's a thing I wanted to put it on there never came to America though unfortunately but it exists okay that's a thing that

[00:54:31] exists that you have to play at least the original version it's called before crisis for found 57 before crisis that's the mobile game that came out in Japan in 2004 originally that takes place before the game happens and shows all the Turks Reno rude Elena very cool game the version I played of it which was a fan-made RPG maker where he tried to remake the game as close as he could which then froze on me it wouldn't work

[00:54:59] anymore so yeah yes but that as whom as homebrews will do yes I was very upset by the way I was actually gonna put it on my podcast but I couldn't it crashed I'm like well I can't finish playing this so I guess we're done yeah I was trying to put it together I had a friend that was gonna do it with me and I was like this is gonna happen that's cool the second

[00:55:27] of our three mics is Mike of the distorted illuminations YouTube channel also known as the mad monarch I've been on his show I think once or twice at this point and he's been on mine a number of times big Final Fantasy fan has a lot of interesting things to say about the series and this game in general in this conversation we talk about limit breaks how Final Fantasy 7 is a tonal shift for the series and while it may not be the best game it's most definitely the most

[00:55:57] popular what I'll say about 7 I may not be the hugest fan of it like I like it I understand why that game was important and why just in the grand scheme of things that mattered it kind of created the modern-day blockbuster title it's going to have a legacy like very few games is ever going to have 100% yeah it's it's supremely important like it is it is the you can argue it's the most maybe not the best

[00:56:27] Final Fantasy but it's probably the most important it's it's the it's the hinge on which the series changed and changed forever and Square Enix is still latching on to that game till this day yep and it has and nothing has really swung back unless you can count 16s move to like Devil May Cry style mechanics but even still you you can point a lot of lines back to the original Final Fantasy 7 that we're still kind of on that track for better or for worse depending on

[00:56:55] your opinion I'll go neutral on that yeah I think I would too actually I think I would like because there are still games I love like I really like 14 and I really I really like 10 I even like 10 too I will also say with 7 again that's why I got that PlayStation so I'm gonna be always at least thankful for the game because in a sense without that I may never have played games like my Wild Arms Legends of Dragoon was

[00:57:22] great right there's so many good PlayStation RPGs I may have missed out on had it not been for 7 existing that's fair I think that's a thousand percent fair again it was extremely influential and it was one of those games that was just a a ten pole that you couldn't ignore and still can't we're still do we're still we're still on that uh on that teat so to speak so which is again for better or for worse it was kind of that change in just seeing

[00:57:49] how people in the area I grew up in viewed the game because again my town was like two to three thousand people maybe four at the time I didn't actually know who the other people who were renting out those RPGs the video shop were so and for like the entire Super Nintendo era it seemed like it was me and one other guy went to school with that played RPGs now the reason you'd probably hear from a lot of

[00:58:19] people was oh this is guy standing around the graphics aren't that great at least if you played other games there is a lot more action mobility and all that but then Final Fantasy 7 came out games did not look like that if you played on consoles no maybe if you're on PC you had a couple really high-end games but just

[00:58:44] from a visual like presentation you could tell Final Fantasy 7 was making changes in how people viewed these games like your RPGs just graphically we're now looking better than the other games art design I think they always look just as good if not better but agreed for sheer graphics just RPGs became the king because of Final Fantasy 7 yeah and Final Fantasy

[00:59:13] 7 was the game that heralded the the era that were probably still in really of Final Fantasy being the bleeding edge of graphical fidelity like every Final Fantasy game that comes out it always looks the best of class on the system it's on and that's and that's all it's been a hallmark of the series ever since 7 so 7 I agree is the first one where it really was the focus but yeah even in a place as small as I was you could see that change

[00:59:42] happening like in real time you'd start seeing normal folks who didn't play video games like oh I'll check this out mm-hmm interesting did you you found a lot of that was happening in your in your even in your small town in your neck of the woods yeah it was no longer just like me and the one other guy that could talk and BS about RPGs more people started getting into it it's easier to find more people to talk to about my interests that's

[01:00:11] good is it was that a good thing for you or was that yeah cool because I can also see the other side of that being like hey there's this thing I love and have loved and now you're new to it I there can always be some resentment for that as well so I'm curious how that hit for you where you how that hit for you I thought it was great oh like that's awesome man it was a little frustrating because some of those same people like oh I don't want to try some of those older ones I mean look at the graphics they don't look nearly as good and there's that part of you that just kind of wants to smack

[01:00:40] them but we live in a civilized society and you can't just do that to everybody but no that's also with the whole PlayStation era and getting that system for Final Fantasy 7 I found so many more great RPGs out there like the PlayStation I think it's close to Super Nintendo in terms of just great RPGs you can make that argument definitely I think you absolutely can I mean I'm not a big

[01:01:09] PlayStation person I don't know much of the history but from what I do know it definitely had a big RPG renaissance on that concept next up is not a mic but maybe stands for mic I don't know mic-esque the one and only Mikel Casanova huge Final Fantasy fan that

[01:01:39] I've been extremely lucky to have on the show he was an amazing interview always is and it's great to chat with him about anything video game related Mr. Casanova share some thoughts on gameplay and some final thoughts it's simple but I like it I love the material system I always dug that as a system I really think it was a very I love how it was accessible yet made sense if that if that makes sense it was accessible yet you

[01:02:08] could do a lot with it there was a lot of customization you could really craft a character and and I'm not somebody who spent a lot of time crafting characters I I I don't like to be led along but I like a path you know I don't it's not something I was really into early on in games especially of that time more so now probably than back in the day but I really love how simple it was to understand I mean you really only have what weapon armor and accessory yeah that's it like that's all you got so

[01:02:37] they really stripped away a lot of the lot of the friction of a traditional RPG but still kept the flexibility where you really could craft a character to the way to your specifications and not screw it up like you really can't you could just randomly put material into things and be just fine I mean you could just be fine so I really appreciate this system what's what was your take on it I got dude I got deep into that system because you see yeah yep you know because like it

[01:03:07] literally you could make any character really play any role I mean with the exception right Eric Eric because well I don't know about you but like I I maxed her out got I got her her final limit break and everything I'm so mad like I spent all that time grinding for her and I remember all the rumors and all the misinformation from from magazines and

[01:03:36] forums like oh yeah you know you want to get her back you just had to go and do this go do this side quest and go do that oh you want to recruit Sephiroth yeah just go to uh go to uh what is it um um what is the place called what is that casino called gold saucer go saucer go there get the was it the 135th or 125th soldier get the Masamune you got to go through that thing that roller coaster so many times and get so many of them then you got to go over to this

[01:04:05] place and man my myself at that time did all of that you did everything you did everything oh man you were chasing there I was but but but I love the fact that you could literally take any of these characters and if you wanted to build them out like if you wanted cloud to be a bit of a red mage or you wanted him to be a healer you could you could kit him out to

[01:04:33] be that if you wanted um tifa to be a um I don't know more of a healer or just straight up just she just demolished dps is a dps literally you know you can do that right like and it was I feel like the first final you know it was first final fantasy that really didn't have set come or completely set character classes um you feel still trashed no matter what you do

[01:05:02] I don't care I can die on this you know she's trash I was so mad when I finally got her and I'm like oh you just used this and her kate's her kate sith were completely useless to me yeah um you get them kind of late that's a problem in those like kinda yeah and then like vincent was yeah Sid hey Sid's a dreamer that jump

[01:05:29] ability yeah it's cool but yeah I mean the fact that you can custom kit it out with the different materia and then you had this the these materia slots that link so you could um you know if you put say um a support materia on your weapon with a certain magic like say if it's ice or fire or lightning or bio you know you could literally do that additional damage upon

[01:05:58] hitting your enemy or if you put it in your armor and also had linking slots then you could also use that can be a buff so like literally if you knew what you were going up against you could literally kit out every character a certain way to where you're just like tank like you could tank hits and it's like doing nothing so yeah like which is great and I and again I really enjoyed the flexibility and I love when a system is allows

[01:06:27] people like you to really dive in and learn the system and kit out or let people who are more casual like myself just enjoy it just like yeah I just want to I just I just want to I want to make my character stronger and it's it doesn't matter as as much man any last minute other thoughts about final fantasy 7 before we uh close up man this was awesome as always well here's this here's this so let's let's do it this way so you mentioned earlier that there are people who are saying you can play and

[01:06:54] we're going to talk about the the remakes later on down the line because I still have to play them and I do want to include them in this game and I want to have my own experience with them before I even really touch on them but there are people who say you can play the remakes and you don't really need the original what would you say to those people and you started that look on your face you started that conversation a little bit but I'd love for you to like use that as a platform or as a springboard to kind of like why final fantasy 7 is still worth playing today

[01:07:24] even though we now have 2b3 remake games and and all the rest of it like what would you say to that person and kind of like find summing up your final thoughts on on final fantasy 7 with using that as like a context as a framework I asked you to do the I asked you to do the hard stuff because I know you can do it that's why I got faith in you man I know you can do it so oh okay set up for this that's all

[01:07:54] so um for those of you who's tell people to just play the remakes and skip the original don't worry about the compilation you are doing a disservice to these characters that while not entirely the best written in final fantasy they have a lot of depth and there's a lot of

[01:08:21] things a lot of people can relate to um and can you know self insert to a lot of these characters people who are struggling with mental health and challenges by telling them hey skip skip the original and just go to remake you're not going to understand a lot of the context and the struggle of cloud and understanding that this is someone who grew up um you know isolated alone didn't have friends

[01:08:45] was picked on like the popular girl next door couldn't did things to get her attention you know try to go and impress her to be a soldier only to fail and go home and be ashamed to you know show that hey I didn't make it even though I talked and said I would a lot of us can relate to that a lot of us live that you

[01:09:11] know um I can completely relate to that I've struggled with mental health I have um you know I things that I wanted to do and I said I was gonna do as a kid only to fail at it oh yeah I'm gonna be a scientist oh yeah that worked out well you know um you know relating to that or or or you know being someone who's super optimistic about you

[01:09:37] know this new industry coming in to your town or your country or your city or whatever only for that to to really gentrify and take away from like it did for barrett and coral town yeah and yeah wow you know just there's so much that you're not going to get by just skipping it

[01:10:04] and I know that that's kind of a thing a lot of people now say when it comes to if something gets a remake or something gets something you know you don't need to watch your version just just just watch the new thing you you lose the director's vision and you also are robbing yourself of experience that could be something that sits with you for the rest of your life it's like people who

[01:10:30] say oh don't read these books just watch the movie there's so much that you miss if you if you just don't do that like I think we all need to just take opportunities if we have time and the availability and the accessibility to do so just experience things things from different time periods I mean if you're a modern gamer go back and play something from a generation or two or three

[01:10:56] or four depending on how old you are when you were born and and learn how we got to where we are now because the deeper oh I'm getting deep in the woods on this one but the the the deeper thing that we that you are are telling people and it's a disservice is that you don't need to learn about the past and how

[01:11:22] things happen and how we got to here just look at what's now because if you don't know the past you're doomed to repeat it and that's a deeper a deeper subcontext I'm going right but you know that's like if people forgot history they're like oh yeah you don't need to know about that oh you then eventually you're gonna end up here you need to know if even if not entirely everything

[01:11:50] you need to have context you need to know hey you know what this is the story this is the game this is what happened oh why does it look like that why does it play with like that okay this is the directors and they're let's do it here this is their their vision for it this is what they were going for this is the hardware that they had this is as far as it could get with but we can still appreciate

[01:12:18] even with the limitations this is not the story they're trying to tell and it's not always about the graphics it's not always about the gameplay if a story is great it will sit with you I don't care I don't care how people you know if modern people don't want to play final fantasy 6 I'm going to always come back to final fantasy 6 because oh it's 2d graphics that story

[01:12:45] sticks with it it is so good no question it is such a great experience even going back to it I go back to it multiple times a year the returners I love that group it that story is so good and it's like you when you you're you know people like oh there's no voice acting when the original final

[01:13:11] fantasy 7 okay well read let your imagination yeah craft that for you yeah you know or or oh why is there so many random battles you want to know why and I saw somebody who played remake first and they went back and played the original and they complained about the random battles and why would they have random battles and games back then because these games were not very long that's why it's it

[01:13:39] was to artificially lengthen the experience they have an rng setup every so many steps so much time there's a random battle that's why yeah exactly exactly so and you and if you don't go back and experience that or look into it you would never know it was also due to the limitations so go ahead no I'm just I'm just gonna tell a little bit off of what you say because it's very well said by the

[01:14:05] way I if you one thing that always sticks out to me what you just said was if you it's so important to appreciate the past because it gives you a better appreciation of the now like I I am trying to instill that in my my eight-year-old right like he's playing breath of the wild right now but he has played link to the past before like he he started with those and now he's playing breath of the wild and he enjoys it and all that I told him the other day I'm like man I can't wait till you play final

[01:14:35] fantasy 6 he's like what's that daddy I'm like oh dude you don't even know you don't even know I think you're gonna love it um so he my my son's his big his biggest gaming flex is that he's beaten Donkey Kong Country he'd be done when he was like six like easy that's a that's a flex and that mind you on the switch so little b at c had some help with the with the rewind listen it's all right

[01:14:58] but still so I I am I pre I totally dig what you're saying because I think um a good example of that my son is we saw the original Star Wars trilogy uh about a few months ago and luckily I live in the Austin Texas area where we have an awesome movie theater called the Alamo Draft House and there's a bunch of them now around the country but we have six Alamo Draft Houses because they started in Austin

[01:15:22] and they were showing the original trilogy in theaters so I got to take my son to see the original trilogy in theaters one a week and he had seen the first one at home and he had never seen Empire or Jedi and he got to see them in the theater for the first time and dude loved it loved it like it was released last week loved it he's awesome loved it so there is definitely something to be said

[01:15:49] for that historical context I'm glad that you brought up that and especially when it comes to human history in general like we don't know it we are going to be doomed to repeat it and it's just cool to see where things came from yeah yeah and finally rounding out the episode is

[01:16:14] Michael K Hughes of the Capes and Junk podcast where he discusses some other gameplay mechanics mini games some thoughts on the remake and some final thoughts on Final Fantasy 7 and then we wrap the entire series up in a bow with the ever insightful Wade aka Professor Noctis on YouTube and on Twitch music of course is awesome the music's great I mean there's no that's not a that shouldn't be a surprise

[01:16:42] to anybody that's not a hot take but the music is fantastic were there any moments that you remember really um again not necessarily story beats it could just be gameplay beats as well because the game has a lot of opportunities for other gameplay I was for I forgot how many little side like all these little things like the snowboarding and even beyond the gold saucer like oh yeah like even the gold saucer mini games are repeats of things you've done like using the motorcycle to protect the truck when you're

[01:17:11] fleeing midgar or the how the tower defense thing I can't remember the name of the area and I know people listeners are screaming at me right now it's not Cosmo Canyon but something like that it's yeah Fort Condor Fort Condor that's it yeah just like yeah you're right there's just every every at least once an hour or two you're you're doing something completely different whether it's

[01:17:38] cloud walking through the parade and failing miserably in my case or you know stuff like that and I really appreciate it for that it's it's it really breaks things up you can have a nice slap fight that's always fun it's like the end of Metal Gear Solid 4 yeah it really is I don't think I have it in me to do a Metal Gear Solid series I don't know I I've played all of them

[01:18:03] I've played well most of them I've played and finished most of them I had a weird bug in my ear a few years many years ago I was like I'm gonna play all the Metal Gear Solid games and and beat them I don't know why I spent like the better part of a year doing it there's more than you think too when you sit down there it is like oh shit I picked up that remake that HD the HD set so I had I was just going through those the Kojima ones and they're they range from very good to fine yeah

[01:18:32] but anyway uh but I don't know if I had it in me to do a Metal Gear Solid series I have been who knows maybe that'd be a lot that's a lot of story like it's a lot more than Final Fantasy this is Final Fantasy thing is is souring me on well the next one's gonna be Metroid that's the next one Metroid is is pretty small that's that's that won't be a year's worth of of chaos this is like Final Fantasy I bit off way more than I can chew with this anyway anyway how do you like the how do

[01:19:01] you like the remakes I've only played the first one it's okay like it's trades turn-based combat for more of a kind of devil may cry action-y take on it and uh I wasn't quite about that as much I'd rather just have good old-fashioned turn-based yeah that's fair yeah I played this I haven't played 16 yet either I played the demo and I had the same feeling I don't like devil may cry I never

[01:19:29] played I don't like these games so hmm I don't know how much I'm gonna dig this too much I will play it eventually but yeah I tried to play 15 a few times it's like man I just cannot get into this tough it is tough for sure I like 14 though I I played I had six months where I played a lot it's one of those those rabbit holes I can't let myself go down I had never I'll put I I've never

[01:19:54] played Final Fantasy uh an MMO before I'd never done it because I know myself and it was a period of time where the company I was working for was working from home this is pre-covid and the company was not doing well and if you're a support trading a support person for a company that has no custom new new customers no new customers and no one using your software yeah a lot of time in your hands sitting at home doing nothing so I spent a lot of time playing Final Fantasy 13 14 rather

[01:20:22] six months period I was doing I was putting in like at least four hours a day because I had nothing else to do I was yeah so I was like all right no kids I want to play Final Fantasy 14 um yep so I'll talk about that uh who knows I mean three years at this point the way this the series is going how far are you going are you going up through 16 I might I don't know I might I might stop at 10 I'm I'm considering like because can I am I really gonna go all the way to 16 but I figure if I'm gonna go to

[01:20:51] 10 because I have to go to 10 yeah at least 10 and then maybe gauge people's thoughts on 12 so see where I'm at yeah see kind of where I'm at because maybe I can just leave it at the retro the ones that are considered retro at this point and 12 is considered retro still I guess yeah and it was re-released on the ps4 right yeah the zodiac page zodiac yeah zodiac was four so I don't know we'll see

[01:21:17] so um yeah man Final Fantasy 7 any other thoughts on it any other recollections of it things that you thought were impactful or interesting uh I guess the answer question earlier of what came in going is just like finally beating it saying that I could beat Final Fantasy 7 because it's one of those hallmark games that quote unquote everyone should play so uh and it was a nice personal achievement

[01:21:43] to to finally beat it do you think Final Fantasy 7 is more important than it is good uh I don't think it's as important as Square seems to think it is interesting okay because I mean like I said earlier it's one of those ones that like at the time there was nothing like it I personally think that's why say GoldenEye and Halo were so popular is because as far as home console

[01:22:10] shooters were co-op shooters or uh multiplayer there was just nothing like it so you look back at GoldenEye today even when the HD thing released this year and people are like oh this game's gonna this game's gonna ass it's like yeah but at the time there was nothing like it so it was huge and Halo had the online and all that so at the time yes now that days like there are a dozen games to do a lot of the

[01:22:36] stuff better except materia because for some reason no game can do anything like that even remake doesn't do material the same way at crafting these stories and as the the technology and the presentation

[01:23:04] becomes even more um you you begin to feel it and I mean of course I would be remiss if I didn't talk about when I was 14 years old right and I play Final Fantasy 7 you know I mean of course the moment of moments in video game I mean history you know I mean whether you like 7 or not that is one of the most if not the most iconic moment in all video games I put it up there with pulling the master

[01:23:32] sword out of the the stone um in Zelda and so you know you I had this was before the days of the internet you you know you had to go into chat rooms and discussion boards to really go through that and I'm playing through this game and um you know I liked Aerith a lot like I mean I'm not a shipper

[01:23:53] by any means let's not get into that nonsense but no we won't um you know I I really had a a deep love for these characters because they were so believable in a way that I had not experienced in a game before and so when she is killed quite um gruesome I mean not like grotesque graphically but just like visually it's like oh my goodness these are not sprites anymore but you see the blade you see her

[01:24:22] hunch over and you see the pain in the characters faces I was leveled I mean I remember playing through that getting through the the next boss hitting the uh end of disc one do you want to save your game I stopped the game and I called my best friend and I I gosh this was amazing moment called my best friend because I knew he was playing through it as well I was like hey where are you he said yeah I'm I've just gotten to this place called like the forgotten capital I was like okay just put

[01:24:51] me on like speakerphone because I'm gonna sit through it with you and he played through that scene with me on the phone and as soon as it happened he's like screaming and he and I share that memory and then we process it together I mean want to talk about an amazing 14 year old experience you know it was like is there any way we're doing all the things that the internet currently does right we're saying do you think there's a way to save her is there a way to get her back

[01:25:19] what what happens what happens when you die and then we're starting to ask these big existential questions you know it's like what has this game done to us and you know that however many decades later 27 years later we're still asking those questions about that moment really yeah and it's it's amazing it's great you had that communal experience oh that's so good what a wonderful

[01:25:42] wow to have to share that with somebody and walk through them with it that's really cool yeah again it was just so crazy because I we were both trying to play kind of at the same pace or whatever and so I just got there first called him first thing and like he's playing through it and what what a memory that was wow that's amazing that's so fun and so good yeah I love that

[01:26:15] and that does it for the final fantasy 7 series whoosh nothing will go as long as that I promise from here on out as we continue our exploration of the final fantasy series if you've been hanging this far thank you so much for doing so it's greatly appreciated your support is appreciated and please tell a friend or tell someone you know about this series this is an exhaustive podcast journey where people share stories you don't really hear on a lot of other podcasts so

[01:26:45] please please tell your friends if they are like-minded in their final fantasy 7 fandom next week we have a tales from the bargain bin to spice things up so be sure to come on back for that many thanks to my editors pete harney and kev from the discord double thanks to my patrons for their continued patronage and thanks to you for listening to this edition of a gamer looks at 40 and until next time just be kind to yourselves and each other