Ep 121: Final Fantasy 7 (Part 3) - MORE Intros and First Impressions

[00:00:11] Hello and welcome to episode 121 of A Gamer Looks At 40. My name is Bill Tucker. And on this episode, we continue discussing introductions and first impressions to the epic adventure known as Final Fantasy 7.

[00:00:30] Now, as the marquee game for the entire franchise, Final Fantasy 7's reach and influence have spanned generations and as a result, so have the first experiences. My first guest on this week's show is content creator and Sephiroth cosplayer Diana McQueen. Please check out her work on TikTok at StormVexed.

[00:00:54] You'll find the handle in the show notes below as she shares her first encounter with this landmark game and why it took hold as a personal classic. So, yeah, thank you so much for taking time today to chat with me about Final Fantasy 7, a game you clearly love very, very, very much. Yeah. So let me just start off by saying what we're asking, what was your first introduction to the game? How did you get involved with it? And we'll just kind of go from there.

[00:01:23] I don't want to lose my geek cred at any point during this conversation, but I had... It's impossible. It's impossible. It's impossible. I mean, that is... I am a very, very big nerd, so I don't know if that would happen. But I have a very, like, roundabout way. I'm not a technological early adopter, so I came to the PlayStation very late. I did not have enough money to buy it for a very long time.

[00:01:48] But, man, I happened to be dating in college. Did have one. And he was replaying it. Because, of course, I heard about it. Of course, I had played the original Final Fantasy. I had played 6 a little bit, or 3, whenever it was, at friends' houses on other consoles that I did not have because we opted for Sega. So, I had heard things about it, but it just was not available to me.

[00:02:18] And, you know, 97 was still the Wild West dial-up internet and wonderful things like that. And I was trying to be part of the geek community, but I wasn't quite in the Final Fantasy community yet. So, yeah, he was playing it, and I was just... I don't watch people play video games. I don't understand it. But I was... I could not look away. It was that and Xenogears. I just... I was like, I'm reading a book, essentially, because he would get to a cutscene,

[00:02:46] it would just be scrolling text, scrolling text, scrolling text, and I'm like, oh, this is awesome. Beautiful illustrated book. And, yeah, it's just always stuck with me. Especially Sephiroth. Like, I mean, I feel like everybody feels like this, but it was...

[00:03:04] He was just a perfect villain in this, you know, slick, cool, I'm evil, I'm unredeemable, and I don't care kind of, you know, guy you love to fight and you're scared of. Yes. Just within the world, you know, and we're not competing with anyone else at this point in the conversation. We'll take that in a different direction. But, yeah. And he's what stuck with me the most, because I just found him fascinating.

[00:03:32] I was also interested in psychology and literature and mythology and all that stuff, so that helped. But it wasn't until I got a PS1, and honestly, when I went to the game store to buy a bunch of games I had missed, I picked up Final Fantasy VIII first. I really loved the box art. It looked really beautiful, and all the characters looked cool, and then I played that obsessively until I finished it. I even had the guidebook.

[00:04:01] I did everything. But then I played Final Fantasy VII for myself, and it was incredible. You know, it wasn't the beautiful, like, the CGI that we had at the time, you know? Like, it was obviously, like, taking a step back. So, obviously, Final Fantasy VIII was like, I was like, this is beautiful. I want to play this one. But, yeah. It's just, it was kind of piecemeal, but I got there. I guess is the answer.

[00:04:32] And about what year was that when you first started playing Final Fantasy VII? I believe it was 2000 or 2001. That first. My friend gave me a PS1. It was very nice of her. No, very nice. That's cool. Because the PS2 was like about to come out. Yeah, so it's a little later. So there's a lot of time involved. There's some stuff in the early online days. Like, early online, right? We're not talking crazy online. No YouTube yet or anything like that. Yes.

[00:05:03] What struck you first about the game when you first played it? What struck you as special or just what got its hooks in you? I think Final Fantasy in general had always intrigued me, even though I couldn't play it. I just, I really liked the title. And I'm always like, what does that mean? You know?

[00:05:21] And I mean, I know now, but it, overall, I mean, just, you know, especially watching someone else take the pressure off of having to fight all the bosses and the strategies and leveling up. Right. And all of that, it was how the story was being told. It's really, I mean, it has, sometimes Final Fantasy is a little, you know, ham-fisted or, you know, they don't, they're a little too mysterious when they shouldn't be.

[00:05:47] And, but no, but this was, it was told in like a perfect way. And everybody likes to say it's so confusing, but it's honestly, the only thing I can think of to compare it to is Endgame, Marvel Universe Endgame. Sure. There's just so many pieces and it was planned forever. And you really, you just have to sit down and, you know, put all the puzzle pieces together.

[00:06:12] And then it's not just make sure you're telling things, you know, completely, but you can't, you can't front load it, you know, with all this explanation. And you, but you also can't, you know, forget to tell people things. And it was just, it was how it kept the suspense going. This is the suspense and the mystery and, and the music. Yes. It definitely stuck with me.

[00:06:37] I mean, I mean, Sephiroth's many theme songs are very iconic and they just right in there. Yeah. And I love how, how creepy it was, even though it was polygons. Like, you know. Yeah. Oh, totally. Totally. Had no idea what was going to happen next. Like, never heard a story like that before. I, and I, I love stories like that. Ones that are, you know, they're not overly complicated. They use all their pieces. So. I think that, I think that's a really good way of putting it. Using all its pieces.

[00:07:07] Final Fantasy seven is very good at creating. If, if Final Fantasy six and the early ones are kind of these straight lines with little side quest diversions, even new with the newer ones, kind of straight lines with these diversions. Final Fantasy seven is this big tangled web column. It's all, it's very intricate inside of it. It's one column. It's like one story. Yeah. But it's so, everything's very interwoven with itself, which to me makes it feel like it's complicated and convoluted.

[00:07:36] Because in the game itself, you're going back in time, forward in time, back in time, flashback this. And it really drops you in the middle of it with no information. Uh, I really respect the way it tells that story because as you go through it, there's a lot of, there's a lot of richness there. Absolutely. And, and I didn't, I don't think I knew the term at the time, but at the unreliable narrator trope. Sure. Yeah. I don't care how many times you use that.

[00:08:01] I'm going to be like, every time, you know, like, cause you, you leave, especially if the author is good. And that's why I keep thinking like, this cannot be a movie. I keep, every once in a while, I'm like, how would I boil this down to like a less than three hour movie? And you can't, you, you know, there are no side, I mean, there's side quests, but there's no piece that you can take out of this. If you did, it wouldn't make sense. And honestly, I've read so many things about the history of Square Enix, like trying to figure out where this game came from.

[00:08:30] And I have a better idea than I did before, but I'm just like, what, like, where did this game come from? And I feel like a lot of people feel that way. So when you played it, how old were you when you, when you did, when you first played Final Fantasy VII? I didn't get the chronology quite right. Uh, well, when I was, when I was watching somebody play it, I think I was 19. Okay. Okay. And it was quite, it was like three years after it came out, three or four years. Gotcha. It's 97, right? Yeah. And then sometimes I forget.

[00:09:00] All time condenses on me and, and then I, I think I played it for myself, like maybe 2010, 2009. Uh, I moved around a lot that, and during that period. So it was like selling stuff and, and I think that's when it's landed. And, and I was like, ah, I did it finally did it. Check, check that off, you know? And of course, didn't breed any Chocobos, didn't get all the summons was not one of, you know?

[00:09:28] And I just recently replayed it on switch because I was waiting for every, from like PlayStation one days, all I wanted was like a Sega game gear with all the final fantasy games on it. Like that's been my thing that I've always wanted. And even the PSP didn't have all the games on it. And I'm like, come on, you know? And I know the technology like didn't work at the time, but now it does. And now I have a whole doc of every single file.

[00:09:56] I mean, up to, yeah, up to 11 is the MMO. So yeah, everything after that is computer and you know, but yeah, I'm very happy. So I, I played eight again right away. And you know, this was what I was waiting for the, the pixel remasters. And then I played seven again and I was, I don't know. I don't, the, the pixel remaster experience is very different. I feel like something, something was off.

[00:10:26] I don't know what it was, but I was flying through the game, but I wasn't leveling up. And I think it's cause I was so interested in the story that I didn't actually do a lot of the side quests. And, or, you know, I didn't, I didn't just ran randomly go around killing stuff. And, um, I don't know, but you know, I did all get all, get all the way to the end and Sephiroth killed me. So a lot. And then I was like, Oh man, I have to go back and do something.

[00:10:54] You know, I have so many saves. So I'm like, okay, I have to go back and figure out what I didn't do. Um, but I always go, I don't know, spoiler alert, but, uh, I always go to the cave to meet Lucretia to like give Vincent his closure. Yep. If you can call it that. Um, yeah, I love that part. It's a great moment.

[00:11:23] From new friends to old pals. My next guest would likely murder me in my sleep. If I didn't interview him for this series. I mean, just kidding. He's not a violent person, but you'd be rather upset. And this, and the series wouldn't be the same without him. Please welcome to the show streamer game critic and author of the Mobius seven fan fiction, the one and only games with coffee. The fancy countdown is irrelevant to me, but, uh, Mr. Mr. Coffee.

[00:11:53] How are you? Good, sir. We are here to talk about a game that I think you've been wanting to talk about ever since we started this series way back in February when I started interviewing for this. Yeah. I already put my name down. This is the one. Yeah, this is the one. I think a friendship would be dashed if this didn't happen. Oh, absolutely. I think that would be like, that's it. We're no, we can no longer be pals. Um, no, don't say that. I don't think that's that. I don't think that's, that might be a little bit extreme, but. Perhaps, perhaps. Okay.

[00:12:23] That's fair. That's good to know. Uh, but I will say there's no way I could do this without having you on board. Uh, so about final fantasy seven, a game that is truly near and dear to your heart. So I'd just love to start at the beginning. I think you might've shared some of this in different episodes, but just so we have a kind of like a complete chronology. What was your introduction to what would become a lifelong love of a game? Uh, okay. So let's recap here folks.

[00:12:50] Um, 1997, November, I was in fifth ish grade around the time. Um, just turned, yeah, just turned 10 that year. So yeah, just hit fifth grade. Um, I funnily enough, actually, um, this is going to be a bit of a revision here. I remember I got a couple of gaming magazines and there was this one beautiful ad of final fantasy seven. And I think the ad, I think the ad read, and this was like, this is brilliant copy by the way.

[00:13:20] Um, you can feel your, you can feel your eyes bleed. You can know, no, you can hear your eyes bleed just because of the visuals, right? And it was just, it was just that visual of Sephiroth just ripping out the statue of Genova in the Nibelheim reactor during the flashback sequence. And I was like, I think I remember seeing that as a, okay, that's pretty cool. Gotcha. Nice. Nice. But then fast forward, uh, fast forward months later.

[00:13:47] Um, it was, uh, an ambassador video, a little mom pop rental shop that was down the street from where I live. And, uh, one of the games we, me, my brother, we go there from time to time, rent some games here and there, mostly on the PlayStation. Cause you know, that's, they had super Nintendo games. They had, yeah, I think they still had NES games back then, but super Nintendo, Sega Genesis and PlayStation games. And they even had some Saturn games and stuff like that too.

[00:14:14] But, um, Final Fantasy seven, the cover actually pull my eyes first. And we're like, okay, Shane, bro, we're gonna, we're gonna get this game. We're gonna, we're gonna start playing it. And, uh, yeah, bring it home that same night, put it in. And we were just treated to this amazing spectacle. It's like right off the bat, like things just get action heavy. You're jumping off a train.

[00:14:43] You're a dude with your blot, spiky, you're a spiky blonde haired dude. We only got giant sword. Your teammate is a dude, a big dude with a gun for an arm. I mean, how cool is that? It's he's got a gun for an arm. That's a cyberpunk as you could possibly get. And he's like, come on newcomer, follow me. And you're, you're going on about your, uh, taking out bad guys with your giant sword. And then you meet up with bigs and Jesse. They're trying to break into the reactor and they're like, who's this guy?

[00:15:11] And it's like, uh, didn't really know. He's a former soldier, but he quit them. And now he's one of us did catch a name. And then you get to name him and he's like, I'm cloud. And I'm like, Oh my God, I love this guy. Now, did you name him something other than cloud or do you stick with? Nope. Stuck with the name, stuck with the name. Good, good, good, good, good. Excellent. I, uh, it's like every time I play final fantasy seven, I think to myself, maybe I should rename him, but I ended up going back to the defaults. I can't just name them other care. I can't change their names.

[00:15:40] I just, it has to be cloud. It has to be teeth. It has to be baron. Interesting. I love that. I think that's great. I'm very much said the same way nowadays. When I was younger, I think I was so in the final fantasy one mode where you had to choose a name, but I definitely starting with six. I was like, no, no, no, we got to keep the, keep the originals. Don't, don't mess with the, uh, perfection. Don't mess with perfection. Exactly. So for you, one of the first things you noticed was that box art, that box art for, for final fantasy seven is, is extremely striking.

[00:16:10] I mean, it is, I'm looking at it right now as I, yeah, it's all, it's almost half of the images, just pure white. It's got, uh, Shinra in the, in the distance, I guess it's Shinra headquarters, right? In the distance. Shinra headquarters in the distance. In almost like this white contrasty, is it like blending into the background to a certain extent? And then you just have cloud with this giant sword. Like this, this image is one quarter sword. Yes. It's staring up at this thing. It's glorious. It is glorious. Like it is really, really cool.

[00:16:40] It is an amazing, uh, image. It's really striking. It's one of those. I always wonder if the box art helps to sell the game. And I think in this situation, it totally, it really did. It really was just like, well, dude with a giant sword. I don't know what this is about, but I, I am in for it. Let's go. Yeah. It is super cool. So, and then of course the visuals struck you immediately because there was literally nothing like it. Nope. The only other RPG I played up until that point was dragon warrior or dragon quest for those

[00:17:10] purists out there. But yeah, dragon warrior was my very first RPG. I love that game. I didn't even know what an RPG was, but I'm like, Ooh, this is my jam. I love this. Now. What was, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no. I was just going to say, and then there was also Zelda two, but I don't think you can really count that as an RPG. It's got RPG elements. I think you can loosely call it. You have, there is progression and you can choose abilities and I don't know. I know John genres and labeling. Look, I just released a Chrono trigger episode. All right. I get to listen to it by the way.

[00:17:39] It's fine. It's, it's, it's the weirdest thing I've, it's one of the weirdest things I've done and it's, I kind of love it, but weird is good anyways. It's weird. It's fun. But anyways. Um, so when you were playing it for the first time, you know, visual visuals, of course, caught you immediately. How did you feel? Now was, did you play this of its time or was it, was this further down the line? I was out of its time is obviously my very first final fantasy game. It just came out.

[00:18:07] Um, I, when I walked into it, I had no, I had no notion of what final fantasy was interesting. So it really just sold you on just the cool cover art. Like, Oh, this thing is cool. I want to check this out. Yeah. Yeah. That basically, that's basically what happened. It's just awesome. Cool cover art. And like, Oh yeah. Like let's do this. So what all I also find it very interesting how I feel like final fantasy seven is the

[00:18:33] time when games grew up with the generations because it was a lot more adult subject matter. Uh, you have, you know, profanity, you know, kind of sort of profanity. You had them, the, the, the fake blips and bleeps in the, in the dialogue boxes. I love those. It's just great. It's super fun. Um, and it happens early, like right away. Barrett's, uh, has, uh, some curse words at it. But it's got this cyberpunk feel.

[00:19:01] Like you said, it's dealing with corporations, not kingdoms, which again is probably more adult, you know, than the fantasy stuff we've been dealing with seven final fantasy one through six. So how did that feel for you? How did that land for you as someone who was, you said 11, I think, right? I was, yeah, I was 10, 10 going on 10, 10, almost 10 and a half, like going on 11. Um, honestly, it was just, it felt, it felt real to me, you know? Um, I mean, I don't know.

[00:19:30] I was really thinking about it at the time, but as I, because I grew up with this game so much, I like could see, I could see parallels between the setting and the, the story of final fantasy seven with real life as it is like corporations. Um, you know, they take up, they take up a lot of our own resources. They consume tons of natural resources. The people are downtrodden. They're live. They live in the slums.

[00:19:59] They live in poor conditions, cost of living, inflation, affordability. That's what it's still 37. Sorry, 20. No, is it 30? No, 27 years later. 27. Yeah. 27 years later. Those themes are still relevant today as they were back in 97. I keep forgetting I'm 10 years older than final fantasy seven. It's crazy.

[00:20:25] And yeah, it's just like, again, um, sorry, I had a bit of a brain fart, but I know we're talking about, we're talking about, we're talking about the, um, uh, crap. How, how, how was, how the more adult, how it kind of grew up with how the generation. Yes. Yeah. So, um, yeah, the, the mature themes mainly flew over my head. That's fair. Yeah. You're 10.

[00:20:52] I didn't really know what it, but there were many, like, honestly, as much as I love that, I love final fantasy seven, that game gave me nightmares. I was scared. I was scared. I was scared. Like, I'm not gonna swear, but I was very, very scared. Yeah. I used to have nightmares all the time, but I still could, I just could, I couldn't get away from it. I just, I kept coming back for more. And you know, it's funny too, because I, it's funny.

[00:21:20] I'm going to, I'm going to take the, tie this back to final fantasy six. And, um, what's interesting about final fantasy six is in that you, I remember you mentioned this a lot now it's just terrifying. The fact that Kefka, because he has unlimited magic on his side, he can just end anything. He can just end everything in an instant. Like he doesn't, he just can just do whatever he wants on a whim and nothing, nobody can do anything about that. Right. He has all this power behind him and he's just so insane.

[00:21:49] And so out of his mind that like he doesn't care. And yes, that's true. That's very terrifying. But for me, given my scientific background and everything and how I've identified so much with seven, I find that the more that seven really doubled down on the scientific experimentation. Like six, they had that too, with the magic tech and how sellers was created and how Kefka was created.

[00:22:17] But seven just took it to another level. And it's almost Cronenberg ask when you think about it, like scanners, like sure. Some of those latest movies and stuff like that. I never, I don't really watch much Cronenberg. I read about it and I like, I'm reading about it. I'm like, this is basically final fantasy seven levels of crazy. You can draw a lot of lines to cosmic horror. You can draw a lot of lines to yeah. Some, I mean, body horror stuff with body horror. That's the one I, yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:45] Especially with, you know, Jenova in, in capsules and it's, it's creepy, you know, when Hojo turns into a crazy tentacle monster. Like that's, that's creepy. The second for the, uh, Hojo second form. Oh my God. The nightmares I used to get from. Yeah. That's, that's, that's some scary stuff. And that's actually a funny, really, really funny story about that. Um, so when I was 11 and I started sixth grade, um, they, uh, my teachers, cause we were in a joint class, right? Joint grade six class.

[00:23:15] It's, it was a very, it was a very odd time. So we ended up with like, what, 50 something students with two teachers. And yeah, it was crazy during that first week of school. Um, we had an assignment where like, you know, we had, uh, we had the first initial of our life of our name, like cut out a Bristol board. And we were supposed to fill that with all the things that make us who we are.

[00:23:42] And idiot me drew a buster sword. Ha ha ha ha. On it. And I got in so much trouble. Wow. Like they got my parents and just like, Ryan drew a sword on his, on his, on his, uh, on his assignment here. And we're a little bit worried. And I'm like, guys, all about Final Fantasy seven. I'm sorry. Oh, that's funny. It's giant buster sword.

[00:24:10] They're like, Oh, I like puppy. I like hockey football. You're like, I like, I like swords. I like swords. I'm basically the fighter from 8th theater. I like swords. I like swords. I still like swords.

[00:24:25] So the friend train a rolling is Julian from the stage select podcast, followed by former EGM editor, current cohost of the player one podcast and creator of the generation 16 series of videos. The one and only Mr. Greg sewer. We're not here to talk about roller coasters.

[00:24:54] We're here to talk about final fantasy seven. Julian. When were you, did you play this of its time? Oh, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Final fantasy seven actually marks a, uh, a tradition that started then that has that I've kept to this day, which is that I bought it on the day of launch. And I have done that with every mainline final fantasy since, because that was, I think that that was the first one where I, it, it had a release day.

[00:25:24] Like, you know, this was still an era where a lot of games didn't have like a firm release date where you knew when it was coming out. And this also for me personally, and, and going forward in these interviews, this marks when I discovered game fellows, the store that I would end up working at for almost 10 years. Um, and so I actually went in to pre-order final fantasy seven at game fellows.

[00:25:47] And I remember the day that I got the call like after school, uh, from a guy who had become my coworker saying, Oh, this is Jim from game fellows for Julian. We have your final fantasy seven waiting. Uh, and I got my mom to take me to the mall and picked it up. Uh, and then got sick over the weekend. Uh, and I, so I was a very sickly kid in school. I would, I would miss weeks at a time.

[00:26:13] Uh, and I missed like, like I was, I was out sick the week after I bought final fantasy seven, but it was just that right kind of sick bill where the only thing that you can do is like play a video game. And I had final fantasy seven. Um, so yeah, I beat it in a week and wow, back to school. Like my friends were like, Oh, how's final fantasy seven? Like it's really good. I beat it.

[00:26:42] Uh, so that's a fun fancy seven. Obviously you were blown away. Uh, visually it was spectacular. What else about final fantasy seven when you were younger? And we'll, we'll kind of talk about, cause I definitely want to hear about your personal kind of relationship with it. Cause I, your opinion has changed as far as I recall from some conversations. Um, but initially you were blown away. Um, obviously the visuals were stunning. They, no one had anything and no one had seen anything like that on pretty much anything

[00:27:11] up until that point. Uh, what else about the game really, uh, really caught you and made you play it for that solid week and not do anything else? I mean, I mean that intro, right? Like as I met, as I'd say that intro, you are already hearing the music. Yeah. I know, I know you listener. I'm speaking to you, you listener. I know it's in your head right now. Cause it's in my head too. You can't escape it. Um, you know, the, the sound of the train, like, you know, cloud, like flipping off of

[00:27:40] the top of it and you know, like it's, it's just incredible. And, uh, you, wow, yo, that game swore. Yes, it did. Unbelievable. Your parents, but may heaven forbid your parents are in the room when that was. Um, and you know, like, and other things, like, it's like the characters looked so different from what I was used to there, there, there was an actual like black character in a final fantasy game.

[00:28:09] And I was like, this probably should have been done before, but I'm glad it's here now. And, um, like I, I was kind of, I've kind of fell in love with Barrett like right away. And, uh, you know, it definitely felt darker and more mature, you know, again, going into like my edgy teenage light, like it was right there along with me. And it felt like video games were really growing up with me. And I've said that about magazines as well.

[00:28:53] So, so what's your, so what was your first impression of final fantasy seven when you played it for the first time? What was your reaction to it? You, you shared a little bit of it already, but yeah, actually playing it. I mean, it's funny because I was not necessarily like you where I wasn't a big Nintendo, uh, uh, fan boy, but I did feel a little betrayed that final fantasy was going to PlayStation. I didn't own a PlayStation. I think at that point, um, cause I was, uh, I was a Sega fan boy, so I owned a Saturn. Right.

[00:29:21] But, um, but I did buy it because it was final fantasy and like, yeah, again, that was the first time I think the final fantasy series, I mean, I've used the word cinematic on your show before, but I think that's the first time you could truly say that it felt cinematic. Um, because that cold open is unreal, you know?

[00:29:48] I mean, and I think probably the first experience with that was the Tobal number one, um, demo disc, the disc that came with Tobal number one. I didn't buy that, but I know I rented it. Everyone rented that because they wanted the final fantasy seven demo disc. So it was playing that demo for the first time. And to me, the big thing that they did that was so new and different and interesting was how they transitioned from full motion video to the rendered background, the rendered static

[00:30:16] backgrounds, uh, and placed the characters sort of in those videos with some of the sweeping camera motions. You look at it nowadays and it's, it's pretty rudimentary and like the characters are dancing around a little bit and whatever. But back then it was like, I didn't, I don't, I don't remember seeing anything like that before that demo. And I mean, just the presentation in general, it was, you kind of mentioned it before.

[00:30:41] I mean, square had gotten a reputation with final fantasy six here, final fantasy three here for just having sort of these, this really epic sweeping stories and, you know, these, these gorgeous graphics and everything, but this was, this was a step above that. Um, it just, it, it was hard to explain. They, they put, they, they showed that the things that they were trying to do on a 16 bit

[00:31:08] cartridge system, they actually knew how to do it. They actually knew how to make something really cinematic and theatrical. And, you know, like they could get those, they could get the beats right and they could get the timing right. And it, it, it was so perfectly paced that opening scene in, in Midgard, when you're blowing up that Mako reactor, it just grabs you from the second you control cloud until the reactor

[00:31:36] blows up and it just doesn't really let go. And it's, it's so fantastic. It's still, I still play that section. I've played that section so many times. I played it a few months ago just for refreshing myself on the, on the game for this, for these recordings and still holds up still gripping, still great. And it's like, wow, this is actually really still excellent. Like it's paced. Well, it's interesting characters. Well, again, it's dropping your right in the middle of the action. Um, yeah, it's an excellent open. Um, it's one of the best ones probably.

[00:32:04] I mean, again, I have my favorites, but can't, you can't knock it. And I know so many people who just play that demo, who just played that opening sequence over and over and over again. Cause why not? It was awesome. It was so cool. So tightly packaged. It's so easy to just play it. And it's like 20 minutes, I think, and you're done. And it's just, it's so satisfying. It's extremely satisfying piece of gameplay for sure. Yeah. Any other thoughts on it? Like any other, um, over encompassing thoughts on the game?

[00:32:31] Um, again, we can talk about moments or, I mean, I mean, it was, it was, it was an inescapable thing, uh, back then. Um, you know, I mean, that was the only real way to put it. And it was also, uh, when, at least for me, it was when I had started, you know, it was around the time that I had started spending a lot of time online, spending a lot of time in chat rooms and, and, you know, um, so there were a lot of people to talk to about that game. And it was interesting because a lot of the people that I was hanging out with and chatting

[00:33:00] with online were older gamers like me, like all, you know, sort of born in the seventies, early eighties, that sort of thing. And so, and a lot of them were role-playing game fans. So it was interesting to sort of have those more intimate conversations about the game when it was new and when the world was experiencing it, as opposed to sort of the, um, the unbridled

[00:33:27] enthusiasm for it that you would, you would see or hear from someone who, again, you know, my first RPG, that sort of thing. And I know I waffled a lot between, cause I, I love Final Fantasy six still, it's still my favorite one. Yeah. And, um, so it's like, you know, there was a part of me that was like, well, I don't know if I want to like this as much as I'm supposed to because, you know, because it did feel pared down to, for as, for as big an epic as it was, it felt pared down from what

[00:33:56] Final Fantasy four and Final Fantasy six had shown us up to that point. But I think for a good reason. Um, so, you know, but I still couldn't help be dazzled by it. Um, at all times. Although, yeah, sorry. Sorry. Although I will say, and this is just the hardcore Sega fan in me, just crossing my arms and going, um, when Eris died. Um, I mean, it was a big impact in the story.

[00:34:25] Don't get me wrong, but I, I had this, I was so angry about this. So this is so stupid. This isn't really 20 something. This isn't really 20 something nerd. Yeah. Uh, being way too precious about what he loves. But, um, I was so angry about how everyone was saying how, um, how brave that was of them to kill off a beloved character. Uh, when, you know, I had played fantasy star two where Nye gets murdered halfway through

[00:34:51] the game and, and she's like the second she, she's with you from the start. She's treated like a little sister the whole time. And I was like, actually, push the glasses up, you know? But, um, but no, it was very effective. Yeah. Well, I mean, fantasy star four, I mean, right. Does it, was it Alex? I think it is or she, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, we've been seeing this, us, SNES players have been playing. Yeah. They're knocking off characters left and right, even in other Final Fantasies. Yeah.

[00:35:19] But it's, it is a, it is a big moment, but it's also when I look at that moment, it is actually exquisitely done. Like the, it's the, the way it's done is. Yeah. I really love the way actually where the game removes control from you. So, cause if you remember, cloud is the one who was supposed to do the, give her the final coup de grace because he's being taken over by the thoughts and memories of Sephiroth or whatever it is. And he's been in the game room moves control from you.

[00:35:45] So now you're like jamming on your D pad, like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Stop character. Yeah. And then Sephiroth comes in to do what Sephiroth does to finish the job. Yeah. It's effective, but I can totally see someone be like, everyone's screaming about this moment. Yeah. But that was just me being, like I said, too precious about the things I loved being a 20 something nerd. Listen, I, I was feet in my ground, feet in the ground. No way. Am I playing some Sony thing? That's not happening.

[00:36:24] Once again, it is now time for me to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you to my wonderful patrons supporting a gamer looks at 40 on Patreon, starting with Philip Becker, Terry Kinnair games with coffee, BT Goebbels, Julian of the stage select podcast, Seth Sergill of the all end media network, Tim Knowles, formerly of the latest, the let's play princess Greg Seward, Joseph Coro, Lindsay Harney, and the one and only and ever, ever

[00:36:53] smashing Pete Harney. If you would like to join these sensational human beings in supporting the show financially, then mosey on over to patreon.com forward slash a gamer looks at 40 for zero. Take a look, see at the tears. If you'd like to join the stars and if anything strikes your spirit of philanthropism, philanthropism? Is that a word? Then by all means, sign up today.

[00:37:22] Next up on the show is co-host of the nerds, a broadcast podcast, Ian, followed by James and JJ of retrofits on YouTube. Hmm. Do I play my N64 or did you say PC? Yeah, I played FF7 on PC first. Yeah. I didn't even know that was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's FF7 and FF8 got PC releases.

[00:37:48] Um, curiously, I, uh, first time I ever played Final Fantasy seven. I know this is an aside from Zelda, but that's fine. No, no, no, that's fine. This is interesting. I know we love the stories. Um, first time I ever played Final Fantasy seven at all was a demo disc on a PC gaming magazine and it was, I can never remember the name of the location in the game.

[00:38:13] It's, um, just before you get to gold saucer, there's that little part where you're going through the forest and you come to the mining village where you meet Barrett's family. Uh, it was just that little section that was on the demo disc. And that was my first experience of Final Fantasy seven. And, uh, weirdly the PC that the family PC that we had at the time, uh, wouldn't run it properly.

[00:38:42] It had do the battle sequences fine, but the overworld was all corrupted and you couldn't make out which bits were the paths and which bits were the obstacles. So in order to play it properly, we had to get a graphics card upgrade. That is so interesting. It was so strange that it was that way around. I thought the pre-rendered backgrounds would be fine, but you know, and the battle sequences would take a bit more power, but it was the other way around. And it made some of the areas really impossible to navigate.

[00:39:12] That's, that's crazy. There's a couple of things that are pop out to me. Hey, I'm still floored. There was a PC again. I, I can't, I, that's amazing to me. Secondly, the demo disc that you had from whatever magazine it was started you off there. Like it didn't start you off at the beginning, the exciting beginning, the train. It's such a strange location to have picked and you know, nowhere even near Midgar. No, no. It's in the middle of literal, almost middle of nowhere.

[00:39:41] It was literally the middle of nowhere. It's the bit where you've got the, uh, the broken Mako reactor is there if I remember right. I think you're right. Yeah. It's a nondescript area of the game really. Oh man. So, so you had, oh, that's so funny. That's so weird. I wonder. I wonder, that must be like a, maybe an England or Britain only thing. I don't know. I don't know, but I seem to remember it was PC gamer magazine that put out the demo.

[00:40:11] And after that, I was really looking forward to the game and getting it for Christmas and seeing all of Midgar was there. I was like, oh, this is beautiful. Oh, but it's all corrupted. And still, we need to get a graphics card upgrade. You had to upgrade the graphics card. And this is what, what year are we in at this point? 97, eight. I'm trying to remember when all these things came out. It must have been 97, 98. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[00:40:37] So nine, upgrading graphics cards in those days was not like it is now where you just kind of pop it in, pop it out. It's the easiest thing you can probably do. I have no idea when it comes to PC hardware these days. You're sitting there unscrewing things and changing jumpers and headers. And it was a job for my stepdad at the time, but yeah. Yeah. You weren't doing that stuff. I'm like, you fix the PC. I'm going to go play Ocarina of Time while you sort that out.

[00:41:05] You have your own option. Like I'll go with option number two. Well, it's actually one A. It's one A and one B. That's the one. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Awesome, man. Well, so while you were playing Ocarina in your Willy Wonka home of all the systems you could ever need or want at that time. So when you first played it, what really got its hooks in you into Final Fantasy 7?

[00:41:31] What was the gameplay element that really just got its hooks into you? It was the turn-based combat of the demo that really appealed to me. I thought this is actually quite fun pressing these input keys and not having to, you know, do the whole all the way around the D-pad and whatever button to do a show you can kind of thing. Sure. And it was just plain and simple and it worked and it made me feel powerful.

[00:42:00] You know, just pressing one button and suddenly clouds running across the screen with a sword the size of Yorkshire and just slicing at someone. I'm like, I love this. This is cool. Yeah. Yeah. It just felt good. It felt, um, it felt crunchy when he actually connected with his sword as well with that kind of noise. Yeah, totally. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of feedback that's actually really, really, really good.

[00:42:39] So what was your first impression when you, when you played it for the first time with those friends, with James, with your goblin friends and JJ with people who you're with? Like what was your first impression when you first played it for the first time? Uh, it was amazing. And just the interactivity that you had that was vastly different from any other RPG I'd ever played.

[00:43:03] Cause I mean, you know, coming from Super Nintendo where, yeah, you had, well, Final Fantasy three, but six really. And then the others that were a lot more 2D and some more simpler sprites. And now we have polygons on polygons, very sharp polygons. Yeah. Like 10 of them.

[00:43:32] And yeah, just being able to interact with most of your environment for, you know, it was all that we had at the time, of course. So yeah, it was great. Yep. What about you, James? I mean, the design of it definitely caught me off guard when I played it because I was used to the older, you know, two dimensional styles.

[00:43:55] But, uh, one thing that I found really impressive that reared its head in, uh, in another one of my favorite PS1 games, uh, which was, uh, uh, star ocean. The second story was how the background was kind of like a matte painting, but at any point a CG, like little cut scene could start.

[00:44:16] And you could sort of tell, cause everything would go a little bit more like film grainy, like kind of at a, like a filmy art style, but it was the exact same matte painting that would then become three dimensional in front of you. Cause it was paint. Cause it was paint. It was like made to resemble 3d so that they could have their characters, you know, existing and walking essentially on a 2d plane with various, uh, like almost like a Photoshop effect of like layers.

[00:44:43] Um, but then it would go into the cut scenes. You'd be like, Oh no, this is a fully realized like world that you're in. Um, it's just this one static angle that you're playing at, um, most of the time. So that was, that was a big thing. Um, and I, I find it really funny because I was one of those kids where I, where I was like, my friend group was so small and carefully selected.

[00:45:14] That like all of the characters just had their names. I, I always, I always renamed characters in RPGs. And you still do. And you still do. Yeah. Well, well, well now it's for comedic effect. Now, now we could, now we could do stuff like rename, uh, uh, Oh, see now I feel bad. Cause I can't remember his name from final fantasy six, the thief. Uh, it starts with a lock lock. That was it. Yeah. We just renamed him fingers.

[00:45:42] Just, just to mess with people. He's got nimble fingers. That is true. He's a thief, but, but when, you know, when I was younger, it didn't, it wasn't for that like comedic effect. I mean, who would have known? It was just like, Hey, you know, which character do you want to be for this run? And be like, Oh, I, you know what? I want to be him or her. And then we just put in the names and sort of have it play out, play out like a holodeck fantasy. Almost basically. Right. Right.

[00:46:12] That's cool. So for you, it was for both of you, it sounds like really, and this is very similar to what a lot of people have said already for this, for the show is that the visuals are the first thing to smack you in the face. There was nothing like final fantasy seven on anything. I mean, not even PC, PC maybe, but PC gaming was nowhere near what it is now. Like you go from. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Sorry.

[00:46:39] I wouldn't even say PC at that point because it was so limited. It granted it grew really quickly, but that was because of games like final fantasy seven. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Artistically made stuff for PC gaming, like designs built for it were sort of, they were not the norm because FMV like film stuff ahead of time.

[00:47:05] Like how wing commander did it where it was just like, Hey, we have these actors on a soundstage and we're essentially filming a movie around them. And then you play the game around that. Right. Was that was the norm for PC as far as I knew for like the longest time. Right. Correct. But this definitely felt more integrated. Like everything was, was closer was, I was tightly wound. No, I totally get that.

[00:47:45] Finishing up the second half of our intros and first impressions is John Trenbeth of the Beat Crone's foundation. And then concluding with some wise words from the let's play princess also of nerds, a broadcast. I watched my cousin play it. And you know, that's obviously a different experience than when you actually play it yourself. So after I graduated college, it was 90 or not after I graduated college.

[00:48:13] It was that next summer in between semesters. I got a job and I bought a PlayStation one along with final fantasy seven and Castlevania symphony of the night. Like those were the two games that sold me the PlayStation one.

[00:48:46] Nice. I got a mercenary. I got a mercenary cloud strife and thinking, you know, I'm 19 years old. That's an awesome name. I wish my name was. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the hell kind of name is that, you know, that's one of the things I love about final fantasy seven is that opening.

[00:49:08] Seeing the opening cinematic with that beautiful music and then being thrown into the mission and like you're automatically fighting guys and you've got to do with a machine gun arm next to you blasting guys away. You've got this huge sword. You're cutting dudes in half and you're like your characters actually running across the battlefield and attacking people. It was like, oh, yes, you give me all of this.

[00:49:36] Yeah, I was there for it. And, you know, the learning how the material works and, you know, oh, it's the stone itself is what's doing the work. And no matter who I give it to, it's going to upgrade and it's going to gain the experience it needs. And then it's the deciding of, well, who's going to get what? Where's, you know, I've only got so many slots on my weapon. How's that all going to work?

[00:50:04] But, you know, just that first opening mission to me is one of the strongest openings of a final fantasy or really a game period. It starts hard. Yeah. You know, talk everything you want about. Well, a story gets convoluted. The, you know, Sephiroth isn't really that cool. Whatever. That open. Is awesome. And so I was like, don't tell again. I didn't play.

[00:50:34] I played it for the first time when I was my late 20s. So I, I played and I was like, oh, this is fine. This is fine. But so I wasn't. I didn't experience of its age, which is why I love talking to people who did, because I can totally see me if I wasn't such a Nintendo fanboy. I wasn't so insulted that final fantasy was on a system other than Nintendo. If I wasn't so insulted, I would, I could, I had friends who had it and I watched that beginning opening and I was insanely jealous. And I was like, this is so cool. This is amazing.

[00:51:03] And I can't have this. It was, it was, it was great. Um, that was like, I think right before Christmas break. And so then Christmas break comes and my cousin's going to be in town for a couple, couple weeks. And he's already played through the game. Like, cause I think the game came out at the beginning of December, if I remember correctly. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so he's already played through it.

[00:51:33] And so this is his second play through the game. Cause I was, I was watching him play through it all and seeing it in person was like, oh my God, like they've really stepped up their game. I mean, these, these look like people. Moving legs and arms. They actually, that's, that's just like a walk cycle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, how could games ever look any better? Right.

[00:52:03] Right. Right. Uh, so, you know, going into it, like, yeah, I was hyped and seeing it. I thought it was amazing. I thought it looks so cool. What was your first impressions when you popped it in and started playing it? Uh, and how about, and you said you're about 16. Oh God.

[00:52:30] No, this would be around the age of 11 to 11. Okay. So earlier. Okay. Yeah. It was really cool. I loved the graphics. I loved the gameplay style of the ATB bar and filling it up. And the idea that you could actually hold circle to make it fill up just a little bit faster. Memory serves. Uh huh. And I really enjoyed that the manual actually gave you an idea of how bosses worked.

[00:52:59] You know, use it, it gave you the little guide to the end of the first bombing run. Oh, it did it really? That's interesting. The, the instruction manual gives a guide for the first bombing run up until and including the scorpion sentinel, scorpion tank, whatever they called it back then. Yeah. So it actually tells you, Hey, when it's tail is raised, don't attack it. Do you have the thunder materia? Use it. Oh, that's interesting.

[00:53:25] So they actually, they actually put some information in there for new, for newer gamers who may not be so used to an RPG. That's interesting. I didn't know that it did that. Yeah. That's smart. Yeah. And God later on that game for me, because I wasn't, you know, power leveling or really going after specific things. Cause I didn't know what I was looking for. So it was actually a lot harder probably for me than what a lot of people might be saying in their story.

[00:53:53] I probably reset like hard reset started this game three separate times. Wow. Wow. Once at a Gynatic, once at the materia keeper in Nibelheim, and then once at, I can't remember the name of it, but the crane robot boss that's in the underwater reactor. Uh huh. Yep.

[00:54:17] And I remember somebody, somebody in sixth grade actually had the strategy guide for this game. Nice. So two years later after I'm playing it, you know, I'm at Gynatic, I've reset the game a few times. And it's just like, wait a minute. Okay. So what, what am I doing wrong? Is there, is there a thing to this? And somebody had the guide. I'm like, Hey, you have that real quick. Did you beat this boss? And they go, yeah. I go, cool. What's what? Is there like some special thing you can do and everything. They just go use a Phoenix down.

[00:54:47] When what? I remember that, that six is like my favorite Final Fantasy, but it's not my first. This is my first. So I didn't have that idea of, Hey, ghost enemies take damage to the curing spells. Oh, that's awesome. That's right. And that's pretty far along in the game. If I'm not mistaken again, I've, I've been refreshing myself on Final Fantasy seven.

[00:55:14] I attempted to run through and then the version on steam I bought broke and I lost progress. And I said, ah, that's enough of that. But it, I, it broke. It broke. I don't know what happened. I can't get past the, it's early on too. After the first couple hours when you're in, um, after you blow up the second reactor, you have to go around and, and, um, I had to, you have to find something. And there's, he said to find somebody who's in a bar, but the person in the bar never triggers, never shows up.

[00:55:41] So now I can't get past it because it's right before you do all of the weird, uh, stuff at the, at the honeybee inn or whatever that's called. Okay. So it was like right before squats and getting the vitamins for the people and all that fun stuff. You were just getting to Walmart, but just past the air buster. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just, I mean, super early on. So I didn't like lose a ton of progress, but for some reason, the character that, and I looked it up and I'm like, they're like, yeah, it's just characters supposed to be there

[00:56:10] for you to talk to, to do the little handoff. And sure enough, I was not able to. So I was like, you know what? Forget it. Maybe, maybe my steam deck did something weird. I don't know. But anyway, uh, that is, but yeah, anyway, so I've, I've been refreshing myself on the story as, as, uh, over the last couple of days in preparation for these interviews. But, um, so yeah, I think I have a pretty decent handle on, on that. I played it when I was like my thirties on the PS three, they had a, you know, when

[00:56:37] they had a little deal of the PS three store where you could buy the PlayStation one classics, the PS one classics digitally. So I downloaded one day. Let me see what this final fantasy seven is all about. And I liked it. I thought it was fine. I'm like, this is good. I found it very confusing story wise. Um, I've since learned more about the story, but, uh, yeah, that's interesting. As an 11 year old, did the story confound you at all? Because that story goes back and forth and forward and back and it's jumping all over the place.

[00:57:05] Because I always grew up with harder hitting books. My mom had me reading and, you know, starting to talk when I was around two. Oh wow. So around this time would be Artemis Fowl. Oh wow. Maybe even my first iteration of getting into Stephen King. Okay. Wow. That's super advanced for 11. Wow. That's really cool. So you, so you already understood story structure well enough.

[00:57:34] I, I remember to think, wow, this is like, it's just jumping all over the place and it was cool. Yeah. I'm 30. I should know much better, but I can, I can imagine for like a set for someone younger like that, it'd be a challenge, but you found it was pretty, pretty easy to follow. Okay.

[00:57:48] And that does it for this episode of a gamer looks at 40. Hope you enjoyed walking down memory lane and reliving the first time we experienced the final fantasy seven.

[00:58:18] Hopefully it triggered a memory or two for you. If it did, I'd love to hear about it. Please reach out to me either on Twitter or blue sky. Both of those places have my DMS open. I'd love to hear your story and who knows, maybe include it in a future episode of this series. It is a living thing that just kind of develops on its own. So please, please, please reach out. If you have your own stories to share, I would absolutely love to hear them.

[00:58:46] If you want more gamer looks at 40 and I listen, I'm biased, but I can't blame you. Then go to a gamer looks at 40 four zero.com. There is a section dedicated to the full podcast series. This includes earth bound, the legend of Zelda series from a few years ago, tales from the bargain bin. And of course the final fantasy episodes that have all been there. They're all listed right there in one convenient place and a playlist that you can binge on your

[00:59:14] next 16 hour flight to wherever you happen to be going. Thank you so much as always to Pete and Kev for helping me cut up the episodes. Thank you once again to my patrons for supporting the show. Thank you for listening to this edition of a gamer looks at 40 and until next time, please just be kind to yourselves and each other. Bye.