Ep 107: Final Fantasy 6 (Part 2) - Moments and Memories of the World of Balance

[00:00:14] Three soldiers meet on a snowy precipice overlooking an ancient town. A young woman with no memory of her past faces an uncertain future, a town of innocence poisoned at the hands of a cackling maniac. An imperial general discovers her humanity through the power of song.

[00:00:39] These are but a sampling of the moments that make up the first half of Final Fantasy 6, commonly known as the World of Balance. A traditional hero's story punctuated by character beats worthy of the stage,

[00:00:54] the first half of this classic adventure is a roller coaster of events and emotions. Anybody who played it either recently or back in the day has their favorites, so let's just do some simple exploration.

[00:01:11] On this episode of A Gamer Looks At 40, my guests and I reminisce about battles, operas, and attempts to bridge the gap between the game's hopeful open and melancholy middle. Time to saddle our chocobos, re-equip our relics, and hope sets her in his airship

[00:01:29] are right on time as we embark upon Final Fantasy 6 Part 2, Moments and Memories from the World of Balance. In the opening part of this lengthy series, we talked a ton about the game's introduction in detail and depth.

[00:01:58] That said, I can't assume everyone listens to everything, so let's recap the episode that was as Ryan, aka Games with Coffee, journalist Aiden Moore, and finally Phoebe, the Let's Play Princess, joined forces to discuss Final Fantasy 6's legendary opening. How about that opening, dude?

[00:02:18] Oh, the opening itself is so powerful and memorable. That's kind of where I fell in love with Tara as a character, because you kind of see her before she starts to transform into the person that she is now.

[00:02:35] It's like, wow, this opening cinematic in a 16-bit SNES game blows my mind. I've never seen it before. And the music behind it too, such a great crescendo of like, I don't know how to explain it, but it's just beautiful. I love it.

[00:02:59] I know I'm getting really worked up about this, but honestly, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, those are the bangers I love the most out of the series. So I can just go crazy talking about those five games. The other moment of just fleeing through the dungeon,

[00:03:30] not having a soft start to the game where you like, the cliche for Japanese RPGs is always like, you're a villager and you start in your village and it gets destroyed and that's the call to action.

[00:03:41] And that happens in a lot of games, but like Final Fantasy 6 is very different. You start off in sort of this industrial rebel city or like a neutral city, I guess.

[00:03:51] And then all of a sudden you're on the run, but you're like powerful and regarded as like a powerful warrior, but you don't know what's going on. And recognizing then that she's in peril and you're like, but I thought she was super strong,

[00:04:05] like the Empire must be serious business and fleeing through the mines and getting to that first safe spot and then getting out in the larger world and the overworld theme playing here. Like that opening is just incredible. So what other moments do you remember fondly from that game?

[00:04:42] Again, could be small. How many people have brought up the initial march into Narsh? I mean, a lot of people have, but I'd love to hear how it felt when you first saw that. I didn't realize that Biggs and Witch were supposed to be the bad guys,

[00:04:56] that they were part of the Empire. Interesting. When you first start that, you just think that you're going into this town, but no, they start talking about the kind of T.R. type thing that they put on her head that's controlling her.

[00:05:12] It's really funny that Terra they know is a half-asper person, but they don't even allow her to use her own magic. They're having her use Magitek armor. Now I don't remember do they know? Because I think the first time you use magic, they kind of freak.

[00:05:29] I felt like somebody in the Empire did because why else would they choose her specifically? Yeah, the Empire I think is aware, but when you're with Biggs and Witch for the first time and you're walking through Narsh. Oh yeah, they might not know. They don't know.

[00:05:46] You're just a new recruit, the new person. And I think if you use magic in battle, the game kind of stops for a second and they go, whoa, was that magic? Like they kind of freak a little bit. Did I just see something?

[00:06:02] And what's pretty cool is that you have more powerful beams here, disposal as well with Terra. But I think it's really interesting. Of course the Empire compartmentalizing information to a need-to-know basis. Giant scary organization doing that. Come on now stop it. They would never.

[00:06:22] During my almost 15 hours worth of conversation about Final Fantasy six, one moment reigned supreme. The Opera House. While it may feel cliche at this point, because let's be honest, there have been hundreds of YouTube essays and articles and think pieces written

[00:06:59] about this quick 25 minute section of game and a four minute cut scene that has stuck with us forever. And it does, it feels like it's something that's been over explained to death. But to be honest, it's for good reason.

[00:07:17] The moment serves as a character plot and thematic pivot point for pretty much the entire game. It's almost the end of an Act One. If you look at it from a traditional three act structure.

[00:07:30] Before we meet the impresario and try our hand at singing Final Fantasy six feels very much so like a traditional Final Fantasy game. But when that final note is sung, things feel entirely different. Now a good portion of this episode is going to be spent chatting about the

[00:07:49] exploits of Draco Maria and one very salty octopus. So let's just begin with Julian from the stage select podcast. Followed by games with coffee. The let's play princess and finally content creator, MacKel Casanova. The opera scene in particular, I always am struck by how silly it is until

[00:08:10] it gets really serious. Yes, 95% of that of that scene is a complete farce like it literally a what I went a thematic farce like just a comedy of errors and slap sticky humor. Oh, no, I have to dress in a costume and pretend to be Maria

[00:08:27] so I can get stolen by the lecherous settler and and I'm going to mess up my lines and like all the fiction. Yeah, good. Sorry. And also just affected like the thing that the the villain

[00:08:40] behind this second segment of the game is ultra is who is the joke villain of the game. Oh yeah. Just just so much so many great bits of humor. Right. Like again, like no one can know about this made a really

[00:08:51] good point about the comedic timing of Ultros like putting his like Phantom of the Opera style like ransom letter and dropping it for everybody to read, but he drops it too late and everybody leaves the room and he's like, wait, no, no, you're supposed

[00:09:07] to read that. Dread. Right. And then later on where he's like, oh, it's going to take me exactly five minutes to push this weight and crush the you know, the people underneath. And so then the timer starts right? Like just just great, great bits like that.

[00:09:21] And then the fact that like, you know, it culminates with this battle with this giant purple octopus on the stage and the director being like, keep it going. This is a new part of the story for our patrons tonight. Yeah. It's just it's brilliant.

[00:09:36] And I think that's one of my one of the strengths of six for sure. But I think the series in general up to a certain point, which is the ability to go from wacky high jinks to tug at your heartstrings, you know, dramatic

[00:09:50] impact. And I think six threads that needle, you know, some of the best of the entire series. Okay. I couldn't agree more. I mean, and what's lovely about it is that you have that moment where Celis is doing performance and like a performance will do it.

[00:10:08] She kind of starts feeling putting yourself into it. But as you're doing that correctly, you're in. So she's inserting herself more and more into this performance to win this. Until until when she's on that parapet looking out, she is now singing about her situation and she is inserting

[00:10:28] herself into it. It's it is stunningly gorgeous. I'm always struck when I play replay it. The whole thing is so silly and goofy, but boy, it leads up to this really beautiful emotional moment. And of course the song itself is it's just, I mean, it's just incredible.

[00:10:45] It's a world class. I mean, it's I've never seen a distant worlds. After talking with Mr. Roth for this very podcast, I definitely have to now see the next time they're in Austin and we'll go and you should come to him and we'll have to go.

[00:10:59] Yeah, I felt so bad because I was like, I should have invited Bill to this. Sometimes I just, I forget that we're in the same like neck of the woods. Easy to do because we're internet. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And yeah, my first distant worlds concert, I was

[00:11:14] actually lucky enough. I was in Houston and they like Houston has like kind of an opera scene there. So I got to see like the opera performed by an actual like opera singer and it was it was phenomenal. So big moments obviously, you know, the opera

[00:11:43] house, of course, the opera house, the opera house is it's like the prelude and I know it makes so many comparisons to Final Fantasy 7. I'm so sorry, but like from my experience, it's just it's just the prelude to the awesome that happens in Final Fantasy 7.

[00:12:01] It's like everything that opera house sequence where the cellist has to disguise herself as the lead singer in order to full set her and then Ultros comes out of freaking nowhere just to just to just to attempt to ruin

[00:12:20] the day, but it just ends up being much more hilarious and more memorable. Like that opera house scene, it lives in my head and I love it so much and I am so thankful that we are living in a timeline where the

[00:12:32] opera house scene in Final Fantasy 6 success. Because then it leads up to the point where you can have both serious and silly moments and then it leads up to the cross dressing sequence in Final Fantasy 7, a very silly moment in a very serious video game.

[00:12:49] And I'm like, this is golden age. Final Fantasy is at its best when it's balancing silly and serious. The opera scene is perfect for that. It's very ridiculous setup all in service of one very big moment where it all gets very real and it's wonderful at that.

[00:13:14] It does that all over and over again. It's one of the best pieces of emotional character art. I don't even want to call it character development because it's not, but it's very artistic and it shows a different side of cellist that you would have never seen otherwise.

[00:13:44] I mean, for God's sake, I have the world of ruin album that OC Remix put out and the three parts that make up the opera, which is about like 20, 30 minutes long. I listen to all the time. Yeah, and then you get Ultras.

[00:14:02] Which is just the light in itself. Ultras is just again just a absolute joy of an octopus and I love a good Joe character in a Final Fantasy game. But the opera scene is such a farce. Like it's silly until it gets really serious.

[00:14:18] Yeah, I mean this, like you said, this game is filled with silly stuff. We have Figaro on fire and what do they do? They bury themselves on the ground because the kingdom, which is a giant castle, also turns out to be a giant drill.

[00:14:32] Oh, come on. That's so good. How fun is that? But what better way of escape is drilling underground? I love it. I don't think I'd ever experienced anything like that and I don't think any game at that time had done anything like that.

[00:15:01] And it really showcased, I think, from a musical composition standpoint, how with the limitations of 16-bit hardware, how much of a musical genius? No, well, we must say, like the fact that the music, even if you didn't have the dialogue showcasing, the music told you everything you needed.

[00:15:30] And again, that's just a brilliance of him as a composer. He understands this is the emotion. This is the scene. This is what I got to deliver. The music was amazing. And agreed it's supposed to be a comedy skit, but it just hit on all cylinders.

[00:15:50] It was so good. You know, and I know some people don't like how the Pixel ReMaster changed that a bit. I can understand that, but at the same time for modern gamers, you kind of have to make some changes here and there. But I enjoyed it.

[00:16:13] I really did. It left an impression on me. And I kind of, when I got to playing Final Fantasy IX, there's also a similar theater. Yeah, I guess you're part of a theater troupe. Similar situation with Zadon and with Dagger or Princess Gornet.

[00:16:33] And I just felt let down because it didn't, it did not hit as hard. Yeah, that's not much is going to. What's wonderful is that it's, what's wonderful is when she's doing, and again, even that whole opera scene where she's singing

[00:16:48] and for listeners who haven't listened to it, my interview with Arne Roth of Distant Worlds, he talks about that scene, how he talks about the opera scene where how remarkable it was that Oematsu was able to convey

[00:17:03] an actual aria that he does now in concert with three soloists and you know, in a full orchestra. He was able to do that same sort of emotional weight with 16-bit hardware. He's like it's a miracle that it works. And you're reading the notes,

[00:17:23] but your brain is filling in the spots. Like your brain is doing... Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. Your brain is doing the work and it's... I remember, because you can mess that scene up.

[00:17:37] If you don't read the script, you can get boot off the stage and have to do it over and over and over again, which again is like a comedy thing. So if you don't have Nintendo Power at your side and you don't think to read that script

[00:17:48] and you just jump out on that stage, you're like, I don't know what the worst of this song is. You can mess up the dance with Roth. You can do all... You can... It's all a big again comedy thing

[00:18:01] until you have that one moment where that camera pans out to the left and you see the sun, the moon, and she goes out on that power pet and is just like... Ooh, she's having a moment here. And wow, just... It's beautiful.

[00:18:16] And I think the fact that all this fun stuff leads up to this one powerful moment is so touching. And then the rest of the thing is just fun. You got 16 pound weights and ultra shows up and you got to fight an octopus and sets or comes.

[00:18:32] It's all fun and games, but that one moment is so indelibly marked. It is beautifully done. And again, that song, I mean... I mean, come on now. It's just ridiculous. So if you haven't listened to that episode, I highly recommend it. Oooooohhhhhhhh

[00:18:53] Continuing the conversation is music producer extraordinaire Mustin, followed by Trey of the Nintendo main podcast and then friend of the show, Xerxes. So... Yeah, it's fantastic. On the opera house, I don't know if I mentioned that before, but I mean, come on, that knocked everybody on their tuckus.

[00:19:14] I mean, there's nothing like that. There's nothing like that. It was just... Nothing like it. It was absolutely incredible. Like if you're any sort of artsy kid at all to see that, it just cemented how amazing this was.

[00:19:30] Yeah, it's all very silly until you get to that one moment where Celis does what any good actor does or any good singer does is become the character that she's portraying and insert herself into the song.

[00:19:43] And the fact that you feel that on a 16-bit boops and bleeps... Yep. It's insane. I think when I was talking to Arnie Roth, he said it was like a miracle. He's like, it's a miracle that works. It's ridiculous. And he's right.

[00:20:02] It's a miracle that actually you're conveying an opera, an aria with 16-bit chiptune. Yeah, it's just incredible. And that opera, if anybody wants to hear just the greatest version of that, do go listen to Final Fantasy VI, The Empressario.

[00:20:30] It's a medley that's done by Jake Kaufman and Tommy Pedrini. Jake is a genius. He's a music composer. He did Contra 4, Chante, all kinds of stuff. Shovel Knight, that's probably the big one. Oh, nice. And he did a version of it that is basically Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody.

[00:20:53] And nothing has ever worked better than this idea. Except for the person that put peanut butter with jelly. This is the next best idea. So definitely listen to that. That's the next best one. It's just incredible. But yeah, it sounds really, really good. It's a great, great scene.

[00:21:14] And the improvement in the Pixel remaster, I definitely enjoyed that as well. I don't know what you're taking the opera song in. I mean, Ultros was always kind of there for comedic value. Like I said, I haven't played that much into the Pixel remaster,

[00:21:45] but I got to the first encounter with Ultros in the water and all that. It's weird how much stuff they've changed. They've completely changed the name of everything in that game. If you're used to the Super Nintendo version, then you play the Pixel remaster.

[00:21:59] Everything is so different now. I haven't played it. I own it, but I haven't played it. Like Bannon's Health move is now called like Prey or whatever. Really? And like now the science, like tech moves, you remember how it used to be

[00:22:14] like a meter that would fill in. You can just pick whichever one you want and just use it without waiting for all that. Yeah, and all of the Sabin's moves are all different. They're all differently named now. Really?

[00:22:29] The Suplex is called like the Meteor Drop or something like that. Like it's I'm like, wow, this is wild. It changed to Suplex. The Suplex is like the custom. That's the meme of all follow-up fantasy memes. Suplexing the train. No Meteor Drop, the train. No, it's not.

[00:22:45] Yeah, I was confused. I thought it was a different thing. I was like, oh Meteor Drop, what's that? And I was like, oh, it's the Suplex. Weird. They just call it. They don't want to call it the Suplex anymore. All right. Weird. Okay. Interesting.

[00:22:57] I mean, opera scene, opera scene always, I always thought was, I always like thought it was emotional and all that. I didn't necessarily think it was funny. I guess it's like, you know, the stuff that cellies is doing all that is emotional.

[00:23:08] But then you have the comedy on the side, right? That's like any good like, you know, dramedy type movie thing. You know where it's, you know, or it's like the Akasa games where you can be, where you can be like serious and funny whenever you want to.

[00:23:21] You kind of switch between one or the other. And I felt like Final Man was still good in that aspect. Let's see. Well, for me, I mean, it was like, it was a bit of like,

[00:23:40] because it was like, it was definitely kind of one of like one of those moments that just kind of like stops everything that's tracks because it's like going, you know, like it's just a complete change of pace from everything that's leading up to it.

[00:23:56] There was definitely some frustration with the music. There was definitely some frustration as well, because it's like, first off, you had to, you know, more or less memorize the lyrics. Or in my case, it was just up down up.

[00:24:12] And, you know, you go into it thinking that's going to be enough. But then you don't realize that that also means that it's like, sure, you have to like do the, you have to have the song, you have to have the song lyrics, right?

[00:24:29] But then you also have to be in the correct spot when the music gets to a certain, gets to the point that it's at. And if you don't, if you don't, then you fail. And I think there's probably like two or three times where I failed

[00:24:43] on getting to the part where you throw the flowers before and having to restart for the beginning and just wanting to get that section over. That it's like, as far as, you know, so it's like, like the, a bit of the beauty was lost on that.

[00:25:00] Fair. Sure. Totally see that. Absolutely. Yeah. Because you are, it's still a game you have to play and there's fail states and you, you get boot off the stage and you have to do it again. Interesting. So when you first played it, it sounds like you appreciated

[00:25:15] it, but the kind of magic of it was a little lessened because of the friction he has to go through. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Though I will say the pixel remaster version of it is so great. It's, it's one of those things

[00:25:36] when the pixel remaster, I agree. I think they do a beautiful job with it. I know people are critical of it and, you know, it's a classic scene, but I really do agree with you. I think it is, um, they did as good of a job with that

[00:25:47] scene as you could possibly ask a remaster to do. I think. I don't think, I don't, I don't think you could have done it better. Yeah. So that's, I believe that's the version that could have been, you know, that would have been if the hardware could have,

[00:26:02] if could have made it happen. I, I, you know what you're right. I think that it really does feel like an original vision. Yeah. I 100% agree. Totally. I warned you, right? We talked a lot about the opera house and

[00:26:33] we will continue to do so as we reach the cadenza of this conversation. Let's welcome Greg Seward of the Player One podcast and Generation 16 series of videos and finally Julian returns to bookend this section of today's episode. That's cool. Um, so do you remember, um, obviously,

[00:26:53] you know, we talk about big moments and small moments on this show. Um, what are some of those big moments of Final Fantasy? And we'll talk about small moments in a bit that, that you remember really again striking you and hitting you

[00:27:05] as you talked about the opening already, but where's one of those big moments that you remember that like really intense memories of? Um, I mean, I think everyone's going to have a similar answer, which will be the opera scene. Obviously. Yeah. No, it's fine. You know, it was,

[00:27:22] I don't even know how to describe why it was a big moment outside of the reason that everybody kind of knows that it is. It was, it was just again, an unexpected thing. Um, I loved what they did with, um, the voice, uh,

[00:27:37] approximation. Yeah, it worked. It weirdly worked. Yep. Um, and so, you know, having this gigantic battle sort of ensue while the show is going on too with, and I forget the name of the character that, that, uh, octopus character that kept coming back.

[00:27:54] Ultros. Ultros. Great idea to have this sort of very minor boss character just, um, you know, harass your, your, your party throughout the game. Beautiful idea. Beautiful idea. What are some big moments of the game that you remember really just is hitting you strongly?

[00:28:21] I mean, you know, I'm sure there's going to be the first answer of like 99% of the people you ask, but the opera, right? Like that, that was such an amazing moment, especially in the moment, right? Like when it was new and not realizing that, oh, I should actually

[00:28:39] be paying really close attention to this script. Like, and not just, not just button through it and kind of just like read it in a, in a, in a cursory glance because this is actually important. Like this is how this next bit of the game is

[00:28:51] going to go, right? Um, so it took me a couple tries before, before I, you know, got through the whole, the whole play correctly. Um, but, and it's one of those things where it's, it's definitely a, you had to be their type of thing,

[00:29:07] right? Because my Super Nintendo was singing to me. And, and that was so powerful and so memorable. And, uh, yeah, I'm okay. Yeah. I was wondering when I was going to cry on this series. Like it's all, it's starting now.

[00:29:21] Um, and it's such a great bit of localization too because they, you know, whoever, like, like, I guess it was, it was Tim, Tim Wolsey, but like, uh, you know, having the wherewithal to actually do a pretty solid job of matching up

[00:29:38] like the lyrics that you were reading on the screen to the warbles that were being quote unquote sung by the Super Nintendo sound chip. Right? Like it, it actually matches up. Like you could actually sing the opera. Uh, and, and I think that's just amazing.

[00:29:56] And it's one of those things where it's like, you know, now when we have like full on like voice acting and orchestrated music and stuff like that, it's not that big of a, it's not, it's not impressive. Right? Like to the point that like for the

[00:30:07] Pixel remasters they just did like a full on version of the opera in, in this game. But at the time, like it was, it was just so incredible. And now as an adult, like thinking, you know, thinking back to it, um, the, like the,

[00:30:23] like the motifs in that play are so like integral to Celas's story, like later on and, you know, and, and the fact that you actually get like, you know, a much more tragic version of her on that balcony in the world of ruin.

[00:30:37] If you, you know, don't satisfy certain requirements regarding a certain character, well, we're not, it's yeah, years old. It's not spoiled. Right? Like if you, if you let Sid die, right? Like, you know, that, and honestly, I think that is the better, uh, outcome. You know, just

[00:30:54] from a narrative perspective, right? Like having, getting to see that parallel between, you know, her, you know, attempting to commit suicide in the world of ruin, you know, juxtapose with like her on the balcony in the castle in the play, right? With the same music playing.

[00:31:09] Like there's something just very hauntingly beautiful about that. And I, and I think it, it also gives her like, like the forward thrust that she needs to move forward and, and try to find, you know, her former teammates where I think if

[00:31:23] Sid is still there, it's just like, well, you could just kind of stay on that island with him, right? Like there's not really a reason for you to have to leave. Do you know what's better than soaring through disguise on a mode seven airship?

[00:31:38] My amazing patrons, that's who it is that time of the episode again to thank my wonderful patrons starting with Philip Becker, Terry Canare, the aforementioned Greg Seurat of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos, Sir Coffee of House Blend

[00:31:55] first of his name, the Let's Play Princess, BT Gobbles, Tim Knowles, formerly of the leadest, Julian of the Stage Select podcast, Seth Sergel of the All-End podcast, and finally the one and only Debonair and ever, ever helpful, Pete Harney. If you enjoyed the show and would

[00:32:13] like to support it financially, go to patreon.com forward slash a gamer looks at 44-0, check out the tiers and sign up today. And if not a rating, review or just telling a friend will always be just as appreciated. Let's jump back into the episode.

[00:32:40] But we have so much more to discuss because the world of balance, like I said in the episode, it's a roller coaster. It is a constant scream until the inevitable end. Aiden, Greg and then Tim Knowles, formerly of the leadest, returned to discuss the game's many

[00:32:59] branching paths and easily the coolest castle, I'm going to say it, in the entire franchise. The three-way split where you get to pick the three parties, right? About two or three hours in. So cool. Like, you know, Final Fantasy 6, there's a lot of interesting things

[00:33:15] like nonlinear storytelling and the first act like everything up until the floating continent is like, it's all fairly linear, but they sort of like do kind of give you that non-linearity in terms of getting to pick which route you take. And I think that's

[00:33:29] interesting because, you know, I have my favorite path to go on and one of them is way shorter than the others and stuff. But just giving the player that sort of freedom within the narrative structure is something that I think was really

[00:33:46] unique and then you had other games sort of took that to another level later in the series. But it took a while, you know, like I don't know, has anything in Final Fantasy really ever done that again? Chrono Trigger did it, right? It has really nonlinear

[00:34:02] second half. But it doesn't offer you ever really any non-linearity in the first half, the way that Final Fantasy 6 does. And then Final Fantasy 7 went like very linear. So it's like, yeah, I think that stands out as unique and like just like it

[00:34:18] shows you how big that world is, right? Right off the bat and it says here are all the places you're going to go. And that was unique because a lot of the time Japanese RPGs up until that point, the kind of the Dragon Quest

[00:34:31] Final Fantasy ones were always like, you know, you explore one step at a time, one town, one dungeon at a time. And Final Fantasy 6 was like here you go, where do you want to go? These three different adventures and then we're going to show you

[00:34:44] a large chunk of the world in whatever way you want. That's interesting to me. So yeah, those are the three that kind of stand out at the beginning of the game. So, you know, that was a cool spot too. You keep jumping around different

[00:35:06] characters as well, even more so than you did in Final Fantasy 4. But then getting to the castle and meeting Edgar and then having that whole thing submerge in the sand again. Right. Figaro Castle sinking into the sinking into the sand. Yeah, it's such a good idea.

[00:35:28] And hey, what's the best way of evading an opponent? Just bury yourself underground and move forward two miles. And going back and playing it and realizing that the tile work in the castle itself when you realize that like all the I don't know

[00:35:45] what the proper word is for these towers in a castle, but they all have vents on the top and fans spinning on the top. And that's the other thing that's really struck me actually going back and playing it because the Pixel Remaster version doesn't

[00:35:58] look that much better, I feel, than the original. The tile work in Final Fantasy 6 is incredible. And of course we had the benefit of not getting Final Fantasy 5 when it came out. So, you know, we sort of had that two game leap. And the other memories you have

[00:36:19] from that time or of just maybe we mentioned some small moments that resonated with you that I thought were really cool like Sabin holding up this thick, the holding up the roof and things like that. Anything else that pops in my mind as we're talking through?

[00:36:36] Oh boy. I think the gravity of trying to heal Sid, I think, sticks out in my mind. The fact that, you know, in my house growing up we called it Figuero Castle. It wasn't until I was older. Figuero. The fact that it went underground

[00:36:57] was just such a neat concept. That's like some A-plus level like Dungeons and Dragons DM making up a thing. Yes! That is like an A-plus dungeon master. That is an A-plus DM in a game. That's really great. That's funny. That's exactly what it is.

[00:37:19] For sure. And thinking about, you know, oh, refuse ban and three times so you can get the Genji Glove instead of the Gauntlet level. You know, that was paramount. You had to make sure you did that. I don't know if it makes a difference. I'm not really sure

[00:37:31] if one's better than the other. I don't remember yet. The Genji Glove is pretty cheetah for Sabin because you want to make sure he can have two claws. Exactly. Absolutely. And that was a big boon early game. Yeah, for sure. And actually throughout the whole

[00:37:45] game there's no point really with that from him. You got me thinking about it. You got me kind of going through my memory banks here and seeing you know what I can. I remember that the sprite for Tritok I always thought was really, really neat. That always

[00:37:57] stood out to me. It was just a really neat weird design that like made sense but also didn't make sense like this unknowable being frozen in ice kind of thing. Keeping the conversation rolling is James and JJ of Retro Fits on YouTube. Then Julian followed

[00:38:23] by Greg Stewart, followed by Ryan Lindsay of Kiss 105.9 in Ottawa. And then finally Xerxes makes a return. Um, yeah go for it. There's also, I was going to say there's also one of my favorite moments is actually I guess it's only like a quarter through the game.

[00:38:43] Jeez. Now that I'm really thinking about it and it's like, you have everyone lined up and you make three different parties and Kefka sends like his Imperial Forces and monsters like up the mountain while you're trying to defend the Tritok Esper. Uh huh. Because it's like the last

[00:39:01] one you know about. That's super early for my number because you're like, oh whoa, how long or short is this game? Because it feels like this big like huge epic moment and it's really just like sort of your first dip into the water of just

[00:39:17] how crazy things are going to get over time in terms of scale. Yes. For the story because it, you know, it does feel like this big like it's essentially like a strategy battle. Like it was the first iteration of the Fort Condor battles in Final Fantasy 7

[00:39:36] was this and instead of like RTS units you were using your actual party so it felt like your moves mattered like you know if you have one party that's like your strongest party but the other two are underpowered like can you really use them to

[00:39:52] buy time if they're like dying? And we got party wiped twice. Oh yeah and and it was the first release of the game so they hadn't patched the part where if you hit the wrong button at the wrong time the battle would freeze and you just

[00:40:07] couldn't do anything or go anywhere. So the music, the epic music kept playing and I was like JJ what happened? My controller, nothing works. Everything broke. We're stuck. This can't be how Kefka wins. Man any other smaller moments that you remember really resonating with you? Yeah, yeah.

[00:40:44] So I really love and I wish more games would do this but I love in like the first act when the party gets split up and you get to choose like you get to choose your adventure, you get to choose the order in which you do the

[00:40:58] next three segments. I've always loved that. My favorite part is locks because I love like stealing the clothes off of people's backs and using it to disguise yourself and get around town. That's a great bit. But yeah, I mean just in those opening moments there were those

[00:41:17] big and I think too, I forget the name of the character but at one point you're on like the ghost train. I think that's a sign. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. The ghost train thing was great. Like they really,

[00:41:33] for as much as we got a lot of character development in Final Fantasy IV, I think that's a great thing to do. And you know, I think that's a lot of character development in Final Fantasy IV. I feel like they really went for

[00:41:48] it in Final Fantasy VI and that they put they put you in very specific missions that were very personal for your main characters in a way that they hadn't previously. And it was just fantastic. Ghost train is a good example of or I think it's actually called phantom

[00:42:08] train if I'm not mistaken is a great example of Final Fantasy VI being both light and dark at the same time and having all those different flavors because there's a lot of silliness in the phantom train. You have those silly ghosts that you have a ghost pal

[00:42:27] that can join up with you and he's pretty much useless but he can join up with you a little ghost pal and you can fight the little ghost and you sit down and have dinner and you can see the movement of him saying goodbye to his family

[00:42:43] after realizing what they're why they're on that train what the point of the train is and even though they defeat the phantom train they don't stop the train from doing its job. It's a very very touching moment so Final Fantasy VI is especially in the early parts

[00:43:01] is really good at these the opera house is the same thing opera house is extremely silly and fun but it's so good at towing that line. Right which is I think again I can only compare to anime at that point because that's something that really

[00:43:21] good anime series do quite well also I mean you have some that are really dour and serious all the time and you have some that are just silly all the time but I feel like you get a lot of series and I'm in no way an anime expert

[00:43:35] but you get a lot of series where they can do that and they can do this degree swing and it doesn't feel out of place and you do still care about the characters even though in the next frame they'll be doing something silly again

[00:43:53] and they might be like super deformed or something like that and yeah Final Fantasy VI really pulls it off super well. Oh yeah that was it that's a big mo yeah go for it. But though for you to try yes. to get all of the major relics that

[00:44:17] you're going to get out of it and all the bonuses that takes some work man like you're never going to get at the first couple times unless you're reading a guide or something and why are you doing that you're not learning the game when you're doing that

[00:44:43] play some fun come on like the clock hands that was was it was it Zozo or? Zozo is the name of the town. Yeah that like the world of balance okay got it like different area but like it was the same like the Magi Tower had this

[00:45:05] like it was the same building sprite as the the buildings in Zozo gotcha gotcha gotcha okay but what was a different location okay do you remember what was the time and it's fine if you don't know I don't you can lie I don't think I

[00:45:23] remember it do you remember what what the time is supposed to be in Zozo. Let's see look it up but I know I don't know it was like was it like 1250 10 or something like that. All right let's see you are so close

[00:45:43] I was right I had the first three between you and I we had it 10 minutes 50 seconds. So 61050 I knew I knew 6 I knew 50 I did not know 10 I guess 20 in my brain it's 61050 I'm sure people listening to this show are probably like 61050 61050 pick me

[00:46:04] because it was one of those ones because it's like that was one again the situations where it was that I knew ahead of time thanks again Nintendo power it like a future play through I actually wrote down all the available times and then went to the town and

[00:46:20] talked to every person in town just so I could you know like where they said that they all lie and like cried to cross like cross off all of them and even if you talk to every single person it doesn't give you all the like

[00:46:34] it doesn't cross out everything you still have to guess. So there's no way to narrow it down completely using logic right that's wild because I always had Nintendo never you know I've never paid attention. There is you still have to make a

[00:46:52] little bit of a guessing game to before it's really interesting huh I did not know that you learn lots of stuff about FonFancy 6 I had no idea as Twilight falls on this week's episode let's spend some time discussing the fall of the world

[00:47:19] of balance and the rise of next week's topic the world of ruin the chat about this section of the game is Trevor and Jeff of New Dad Gaming followed by Aiden then Phoebe makes a return appearance before Muston returns to put a bow on this episode

[00:47:35] it's hard to it's hard to assume you say all of that and it feels like just the later parts like of gaming Renaissance where oh they finally figured out the medium but like again like I had talked about the same thing before at the same time we

[00:47:52] there's just all these like linear jump on thing grab a coin off you go and then meanwhile you have these entire genre bending breaking ideas exactly as you said like I won but I still lost and it's like okay well what's the character's motivation he's

[00:48:08] just crazy he's chaotic evil there's nothing he's just destroying but it's got to be something that I know he's just evil and you have to go through it and then so just to have it's so hard to think about how in the pitch meeting they must

[00:48:23] have had in Nintendo it's like okay listen I got an idea so what we're going to do and then they win the game right oh no no we're not even half way through yet so what's going to happen and then there's going to be a

[00:48:37] octopus that's hilarious they have to keep fighting there's going to be an opera that you get to sing in and so the best part is like on the world is breaking some of the greatest dramas ever being played but it's like the most complexing

[00:48:52] trains singing operas it's all this like silliness that's gone on top to make it just this wild one of a kind experience and it maintains a balance and it may just that tonal balance is so interesting because like the opera house is a great

[00:49:08] example the opera house that's supposed to be funny like that is a the whole thing is a comedy bit like it's you have literally 16 ton weights falling from the sky and landing on the ground and then you're trying to learn the line to an

[00:49:24] opera that you're not really a singer but then at the core you have that beautiful moment that the opera where a cellist I say cells because that's how I pronounced it when I was 11 or 12 or 14 whatever it was. I was how I'm saying I know

[00:49:39] cells I don't whatever language is fluid and you have cells trying to having this this really emotional moment singing a 16 bit opera and you're reading lines and singing along in your brain your brain's filling in all the work so the tonal balance that game strikes especially in those

[00:49:57] that first half is extraordinary it's great. Final Fantasy 6 full of huge moments right I mean it's nothing but huge moments it feels like it because those are so big what are some send out moments to you that really impact the Jew either back when you first

[00:50:28] saw them or even just now when you're replaying it. Yeah I mean the end of the world right like you can't get away from that I think it's one of if not like the single most impactful moment in video games for me like it dampened

[00:50:44] the like spoilers but it dampen the air full spoilers like spoilers for Final Fantasy 7 but you know it's it dampened that moment the earth you know scene in Final Fantasy 7 for me not that I wasn't shocked but like I had already seen where Final Fantasy 6

[00:51:02] was willing to go right because that end of the world scene like you lose like you don't lose in Final Fantasy games right up to that point like you have low moments you go through the heroes quest and you are the hero's journey

[00:51:18] you have your moments of bottom mean out but you don't lose the world doesn't get destroyed and I think that still is a unique moment in gaming like other games do it other Japanese RPGs semi recent ones have done it but it never quite has the same

[00:51:37] impact right even Final Fantasy 16 sort of does it by you know like the second half of the game is like has a brown filter over it but it doesn't change it doesn't fundamentally change the the exploration of the world right and one of the things that's

[00:51:54] so interesting about Final Fantasy 6 is like it has these defined set pieces but then they change after the end of the like the end of the world has an impact on people that has an impact on these communities in these towns and they're physically

[00:52:10] different in the second half of the game and so like yeah I think I mean like that just what's your take on the overall story of Final Fantasy 6 because it's really a tale of two games yeah really no that's absolutely correct yeah what's your take on it

[00:52:45] so you're right it is a tale of two games and it's really funny that a lot of the what the world becomes and the doom and gloom really happens in the second half of the game even though the first half of the game is the one that has

[00:53:09] the most story and development like the first half of the game is where all of the lore and character progression when it comes to the world happens but then all the character development and interpersonal relationships are the second half of the game which is really interesting

[00:53:31] at things throughout the game but they never fully state it and you as a player have to piece the puzzle together like again Shadow being realm's father or wait how can Kefka do magic well he's the very first magic tech soldier he was the first round of tests

[00:53:56] so you actually see that Celis is Kefka superior and using with everything made Kefka a little bit crazy yeah but the game never straight up tells you that you get to piece that little bit together love that about it that's a very interesting note because you're right

[00:54:19] Celis is a high ranking general in the Empire for the Emperor and that's a great note I don't even think I really hit on that but it's interesting I think also when it comes to Final Fantasy 6 the two different worlds are so are so different

[00:54:46] in the first part of Final Fantasy 6 the world of balance it's just this roller coaster like it's just going and you're on this adventure and you're trying to stop the Empire and it's daring due and then when the world of ruin happens you're on the train

[00:55:05] and the rest of the game is just picking up pieces and doing what you can with what you got and it's really striking a different there I do remember that also after the incident with Celis and then she wakes up and then she sees Locke's headband

[00:55:23] and then she goes in and finds the raft and it's you get to the mainland and it's just this funeral dirge with this one pretty piano melody Malin College is ugh but when you finally get to a town and it has this

[00:55:47] oh there's a great word for it it's like a sad but okay like theme for this music of some kind of hope that you haven't had for a while because of what just happened and then what just happened and then what just happened

[00:56:10] and then you get to this town and you have this music and it's like slightly uplifting that's it and then you see people like I know that feeling I know that feeling of being by myself for a long time and I just can't deal with it

[00:56:29] I mean I would put on my mask and just and just walk around Walmart for three hours during COVID just because I wanted to be around people I need that battery to be charged so to see Celeste make it in there and hear stories about what happened

[00:56:47] and other people that she may know it really gave a sense of hope I really like the way you put that and there's a sense of hope there because you're right in that moment when you're by yourself when you wake up in the world of ruin

[00:57:05] you're almost like wow I may be the only person alive and obviously there's that feeling of solitude like that feeling of solitude and of course like you said everybody the first time kills Sid because the game doesn't tell you how to do it there's no tutorial

[00:57:27] make sure you catch the fast fish and feed him the fast fish and do it in this amount of time there's none of that yeah the first thing if you find a town you're talking to every NPC multiple times you're 100% right

[00:57:43] even if you're not a person who does that you are doing it because it gives that connection I think it's really interesting you were able to tie that to the COVID experience where it was a very similar thing all of a sudden isolated

[00:57:55] and afraid to be breathing other people's air it was well poignant is the word I was looking for like that music and that coming up to that to be like this sad but like not the worst and that's a good point you're on the island

[00:58:13] and you don't know and after what just happened you really don't know because the gate your mouth is on the floor like what just happened and anything could be I'm this girl now why her, why just her if it wasn't your favorite character

[00:58:33] what is going on if you didn't like like it's just man it throws you for a loop it really does it really does yeah it's crazy and that just about does it for this edition of the gamer looks at 40

[00:59:06] just a quick note before I sign off for the evening if you're listening to this episode and myself or one of my guests failed to mention a favorite of yours these are probably going to happen one will mention it in another episode

[00:59:19] I'm going to be doing an episode based on characters I'm doing a couple of their special episodes so there's a lot of opportunities to talk about that favorite thing that favorite moment so if you didn't hear in this episode

[00:59:32] if you're like y'all just talked about the opera house for half an hour trust me there's a lot more coming so stick with the show I'm pretty confident this series will paint a very full picture of Final Fantasy 6 and at the end if I haven't covered something

[00:59:47] hey it's my podcast I'll do what I want I'm always down to do an addendum show or do another show down the line reach out to me at AGamerLooksAt40 at gmail.com or reach out to me on twitter at AGamerLooksAt40 for zero my DMs are open

[01:00:05] feel free to send constructive feedback and constructive criticism I'm always open to hearing that while I want this series to be as complete I'm also dependent on my guests to share stories of the things that were memorable and sometimes we just don't get to everything

[01:00:20] so if I miss something take the reins and reach out to me I'd love to chat with you for 15-20 minutes and hear your stories about the parts of Final Fantasy that really impacted you but we have a lot more to come down the line

[01:00:36] so please keep it here thanks very much to Pete Harney and Kev from the Discord for this episode many thanks again to my patrons for their unending and unwavering patronage and many thanks to you for checking out this edition of AGamerLooksAt40 tell a friend, tell a neighbor

[01:00:55] tell a random stranger tell a fellow Final Fantasy fan there is some really cool stuff coming on the show and I cannot wait to share it with you thanks again for checking out this episode and until next time just be kind to yourselves and each other