Ep 109: Final Fantasy 6 (Part 4) - The Kefkasode

When we first meet Kefka Palazzo in the desert of Figueroa, he's the Emperor's errand boy. Flanked by two soldiers, he approaches King Edgar looking for a missing girl, someone of minor importance. Edgar lies, says she's not there, and Kefka leaves. But not before saying, I hope nothing happens to your precious Figueroa. When we encounter Kefka for the last time, he's a stories tall deity capable of incalculable destruction. His power knows no limits and has irrevocably changed the face of the planet as we know it. And the final thing he says in his final form is... Life. Dreams. Hope. Where do they come from and where are they headed? These things. I am going to destroy. From jovial general to nihilistic monster, Kefka's journey in Final Fantasy VI is the story of power corrupting the already twisted. A maniac that cannot be reasoned with, cannot be bargained with, hell bent on breaking the world simply because it's the biggest thing available to break. On this episode of A Gamer Looks at Forty, myself and a dozen friends share opinions and stories about the Clown Prince from a variety of different angles. From back in the day recollections to present day thoughts, we're about to unravel the madman like few have done before. Time to dust the sand off your boots, approach the statues, and keep our light of judgment ever at the ready as we begin episode 109, Fancy 6 part 4 the Kefka -Sode. As I alluded to in the open, everyone I interviewed for Final Fantasy 6 spoke heaps of sugar about Kefka, all for a variety of different reasons. To start our conversation, please welcome Julian of the Stage Select Podcast who shares some personal thoughts on this world class adversary. Kefka is my favorite villain and when I did my early on in this podcast series, I did a Final Fantasy 6 episode. Because again, it's a formative game for me. So it was one of the very early ones. And on that episode, I asked people, is Kefka a good villain? Because at the face, Kefka is pretty relatively one noted, right? He's evil for evil's sake. He doesn't really have this deep, deep backstory, at least unless you're really mined for it. My opinion has changed over the years as I've thought more and more about Kefka. So what's your take on the evil clown? Like what's your take on him as an antagonist in Final Fantasy 6? I think he's incredible. I have seen like a lot of like kind of pushback in recent years like, well, you know, yeah, he's just kind of a one note thing or he's just a nihilist and it's like, yeah, but as I get older, like nihilism is I think a much more compelling thing than anything, right? Like, he, you know, even as a kid growing up, various cartoons or games or whatnot, right? I never really got the whole, I want to rule the world thing from a villain, like why that was a thing that they wanted to do, right? It just seems like a lot of work for, you you're still going to die eventually, right? Like it doesn't really seem like a really good use of your time, but what, But the idea of someone being so cracked and so twisted that they just, and I think a lot about the line from the Knight Returns, right? Where some men just want to watch the world burn. And I think about that with Kefka because he just wants it all to end. He wants to end himself. He wants to end everything. you know, build a monument to non -existence. And I think that's terrifying. There's another villain in Final Fantasy XIV that is kind of in a similar mindset, but only because he's so single -minded that all he wants to do is fight your character. And he could not care less about anything else in the world. And I find that terrifying. Right? Like, like to just be so single minded and not have, not have any joy or, or any other purpose in your soul and, and just want to bring it all down. I am at a point in my life where I, I struggle to see the sense of it all because I feel that like I'm seeing the beginning of the end, like the end end. Right? And so sometimes I'm like, yeah, like I can kind of appreciate some nihilism. Thanos is my favorite Marvel villain. He was when I was a kid, he continues to be to this day. And that is a character that literally worships death. And it's not that I worship death, it's just that like, I don't know, I don't know if there's much of a future, Bill. And so... in a way sometimes like, I wouldn't mind if an evil maniacal clown just went ahead and ended it prematurely. And yeah, and one thing, and I would be curious, and I don't even know if you can find this or not. And I wonder if it's different in the pixel remaster, but I don't know. I never got the impression. and, I've thought about this recently. If Kefka was supposed to be more of like the, the jester slash like attache and not really like a person in power and so that's you know like because it it doesn't really make sense that he would have have like a leadership role but he definitely does yeah but and i guess it's because i never really like I never thought of him as actually being an actual clown, like, you know, with like face paint and everything until I actually saw him like re -imagined in like the Dissidia games and Final Fantasy 14. And I was like, yeah, that's not really how I pictured him in the game. But I guess that is kind of what he's supposed to be. Like, it's not just that he acts like the Joker, he kind of is the Joker, but that's not how I pictured him. And that kind of recontextualized him as what purpose is at the beginning of the game, because it's definitely supposed to be like a shocker that he kind of like pulls one over on everybody, including the emperor, and you know, takes ultimate power. Because he's such a joke character for the majority of the game up to that point. But he's definitely, you He's in charge of troops and stuff like that. So yeah, he's a general. He has, he has command. He's like a field command. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder if there's a difference in, like the original Japanese text where he has those responsibilities, but he's also like the emperor's like gesture and, and advisor, right? Like, cause you could, there's a version of him that you could read where he's like the Grima worm tongue of, of the empire. Yeah. That's interesting. huh. and kind of moving things to his own advancement, like very subtly in the background, or like the Starscream to the Emperor's Megatron, right? It's kind of a conniving, sniveling backstabber that ends up pulling off the actual backstab. But I don't know, but as a kid, that was not how I read him, right? And yeah, I've always been curious about that. Well, not always, but just in the last few years, I've wondered if... there is like a pretty liberal reimagination of the character in the American translation. Yeah, I wonder. That's interesting point. When it comes to the relationship between Kefka and the Emperor, I think you make a really good, interesting point. I had when I was in high school, I was in drum line and my drum instructor was John Gillick and John Gillick had no business being an instructor of high school students of teenagers. He was a crazy person. He would He would curse, would complain, he would make us do all sorts of crazy, like just get us really angry before we went on the field. So was in drum line and he was just a crazy person. the only reason he was there, he was not under the employee of the school district. He was the friend of the band leader who also did drum core. And as one of the band leader's best friends, he's like, I'll help you work with your drum line. I kind of see Kefka as that guy. Like he's probably like, he probably grew up with Emperor Gestahl or Gestahl, right? that right? Yes. He grew up with Emperor Gestahl. I probably went to the same school, was his buddy and he's like, Hey man, did you want to like an advisory role during peacetime? Yeah, dude, come on. He tells some good stories. You have some good ideas. All of sudden war breaks out and it's like, Hey, I don't know. run this one little unit here. I mean, I could use some soldiers. And then slowly but surely he just gets more and more power because of that's just who he is and he's magnetic personality. And and all of a sudden before he saw knows it, he's leading one of the armies in his empire. Yes, he's my buddy since high school. I trust him, but he does not realize how unhinged he is. Why are you? Why are you moving that statue? No, don't. If you move the statue out of alignment, it's going to be better. that's you wanted. is not seeing the car crash before it happens. And what I find terrifying about Kafka, because Kafka is truly terrifying, is that he cannot be reasoned with. He's unreasonable. And as an adult, very much so going back to what you're saying, where it feels like we are in like a final times of some sort, I'm not gonna say like end days or anything, but like a final times or in a downward slope of some sort, is that it seems like reason is going out the window. reason and rationality and the ability to to rationalize and reason and converse and discuss. It's all going away. And when people stop talking, that's when really bad stuff happens. And that's kind of the fear of Kefka. You can't reason with him. You can't level. Hey, Kefka, what do you want? I don't know. I just want this to end. want I want to be stronger and more powerful. Why? I don't know. I just do. And the fact he's unwavering from that, almost like, and I've used this analogy before with other interviews, like Anton Sugar in No Country for Old Men, where he has this single -minded morality. You can't sway Anton Sugar from being who he is. That's who he is. And no amount of pleading or begging is gonna take him off his course. Kefska's the same way. And that is so scary. Then you make that person a deity with all power? who again is just sitting there bored on the top of his tower. All right, mobile is boom. My lies are a judgment. Okay. I just, because why, why not? I have nothing else better to do and all day to do it and all the power to do it is so terrifying because, because that's, it feels very real and that's a really scary thing. People you can't reason with. Absolutely. And you know, and then you add to it like that laugh, which at the beginning of the game is kind of funny and then becomes more more chilling as you get through the story, culminating with one of the most incredible final boss designs to this day, right? And such a juxtaposition between what he purports to be and what he decides to display himself as, right? Like he wants to be like a god of, you know, ultimate destruction, but he garbs himself as a god of creation. And, you know, and even just like think about his tower, right? Like the fact that it's just like, you know, cobbled together from all different parts of the world. He just like, you know, grabbed bits and pieces of everything that you've seen so far and, you know, mashed it into this ginormous tower in the middle of the world. I don't know. There's so much to Kefka. that's so amazing to me. yeah, you know, like I said, he's not my favorite villain anymore. Like that's reserved from a couple of people from 14, but he's a solid number three for me to this day. And that he was number one with a bullet up until just like the last like five years for me. That's cool. And yeah, it's so interesting. And it's and I love the way you mentioned his even his tower as you're going through it. You're right. It feels like it's cobbled together through like bits and pieces. almost like, I know we've done a lot of analogies in this episode or in this conversation, but almost like the story, I have no mouth, but I must scream, where Am, I'm not sure if you've ever read it or not, it's about, have you ever read it? No, I have not. Yeah. It's one of those you read when you're you're like, when you're like, you're 22 and you're like, this is so cool because it's so gross and disgusting. And then you read it, like you're an adult and you're like, okay, I appreciate the pros, That was probably a bit of an edge lure when I was reading this. really good at it. But essentially, it's basically about five people who are the last five humans on the earth after AI has taken over. And Am is the monstrous supercomputer that is keeping these people in a state of perpetual torture because he has nothing but intense hate towards the human race. It's a very short story. It's a short story and it's a very well -known story. But again, it's one of those things where it's scary because you can't reason with Am. Am's gonna do what Am does. And a lot of what Am does and when he's creating his world is just cobbled together through the ruins of everything that's happened and this war that's occurred. And he's at these last five people as his pets and he's just screwing with them for eternity. Which is very much like what Kefka does by his daily laserings, Like, I'll zap this town today. Very, very scary when you have this all -powerful deity basically playing with humanity-like puppets, like toys. Like my kid plays with Ninja Turtles, you know, in the afternoon. So, Kefka's good. There's gonna be a Kefka soda and it's gonna be awesome. Because there's so many interesting stories about it and people have lots of different thoughts, Continuing the conversation is Trevor and Jeff of New Dad gaming followed by the let's play princess and concluding with Ryan Lindsay of kiss 105 .9 FM in Ottawa It was cool because I'm trying to think about I don't know if it was I'm trying to again align the times with him and Joker especially which would have been Jack Lincoln said Jack Nicklaus ins Joker. Yeah, was legitimately terrifying but goofy Right because he grew up on you know, Adam West batman And that Joker was just, know, goof well, not a big deal. But then Jack Nicholson was Joker and that dude was just like off and terrifying. And then you start, saw some imagery of that kind of repeated here. And all of a sudden it's like this character that is, flamboyant is not necessarily the word, but just like that had that kind of makeup where it's not, this is the big bad guy. So just clearly he's got horns and he basically looks like a devil instead. was almost instead. somebody made up to be a clown, which somebody should not be taken seriously, but then is very much is. So that was sort of fascinating. So it was cool to see and certainly just a vast departure. It made you stand up and take notice of it. And then most of the scenes, was it him or his lackey that had the creepy ass laugh? on the SNES. He had it. He had that weird. Yeah. that was weird. I'll drop it right here. Boom. OK. Go to editor Bill. Drop that in there. So they added. Impactful. Put it that way. Like that's a heck of a. It's a brave choice in a lot of ways, too, much like with a lot of what they did. Artistic choice, like brave choice and like what an impact it made. And there's a lot of misdirection, too, because initially in the first half of the game, you think that I think is Gestahl, think is the main, you're against the Empire. It's standard Final Fantasy, small band of warriors fighting against rebellion or rebelling, right? And you think that Kefka is just like this, know, it's kind of weird, almost comic character. And then he just goes full, full psycho. And I find Kefka terrifying personally. What's your take on it, Jeff? Yeah, he was character that was not, he wasn't imposing to start, right? Like he's this kind of like, I don't know, skinny, not flamboyant, but like poker like Joker person. And you're like, I'm not sure his motivations, right? Like he's going left and right and kind of betraying and then making agreements and, and coming back and you're not sure where he's going with it. And then it kind of revealed like, he just wants the world for himself. And he's just going to eat all this power and again, ascend to become this God figure. So like, I was intrigued with him at the start. Again, I think it was kind of thrown off because it was Gestahl. He was the baddie. Like he was the emperor that wanted the power. And then all of sudden, I think he just actually got like thrown off the top of something. I don't know. He just ended. He Kefka just assumed power. But it was one of those things where like you didn't really have to fight him until like later in the game. And it was this big bad in that just what he could accomplish and do. And also, comic relief. Like again, I still remember him in the desert. I don't know the desert name. And he has two soldiers with him and like they're marching, whatever. And then like he's got sand on his shoes and he makes them wipe off his boots. And it's just like this funny thing, but he's a horrible person. you're like, ha, why am I laughing? He's about to murder everybody. But it was just a different experience than what 2 and slash 4 made it to be where it was kind of more of this big bad. up against, right? And Kefka wasn't quite there yet until obviously the end of the game where it's crazy. I love Kefka so much. he's great. The fact that he's insane enough to the point of messing with the warring triad and they are three gods, but he absorbed enough of their power that they don't just instantly destroy the world. They instead become bosses for the end of the game. That's hilarious. but at the same time it's super disturbing, because how many espers did they have to shove into Kefka to make Kefka? totally, you're Where he's eating God energy and they can't do anything about it. No, Kefka is terrifying because he's unpredictable and he has power. And even like, I think about like our modern day, like, I don't get the politics on the show, obviously, but I feel like the scariest people in our real world are those who are crazy and have power and seem unhinged. Unhinged is a really scary real world thing. It would be wrong to say Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely because he was already corrupt, absolutely, to begin with. Yep. Yes, that is exactly correct. You're right. I don't think power has to necessarily corrupt. think power can be an addictive drug and I think you can do a lot of good and bad with power. But he was already, he was the wrong person to move those stones and move those statues and get omnipotent god powers. He was the wrong person. So it's a very scary idea. Kefka, I love Kefka. A while ago when I first started this show, did an episode, like 10 or something, and I did it on Final Fantasy VI because this is an important game for me. And I asked the question, is Kefka a good character? Because when you look at Kefka, he's not really very complex. He's not like a complex character like where I used to see in lot of RPGs or all the media. And it was more of just a thought exercise than anything else. But over the years, my tune has completely changed, where I think he's a phenomenal character. So what would you say to that? Is Kefka a quote -unquote good character, even though he's not terribly complex? Okay. I've been thinking about this since first hearing that you were going to do a Final Fantasy series. Cool. I think Kefka is absolutely my favorite villain in the Final Fantasy universe. but he is not my favorite antagonist. Interesting, okay. Okay. Like when it comes to being a pure evil force of nature, he does it so perfectly. But when it comes to being an opposing force to what the hero specifically is about, him and Terra aren't 100 % connected. Except for maybe the fact that she's half -esper and he wants to eat everything. He wants to eat all the espers because he's crazy person. interesting. I like that line you drew. Here's a question then. Would you consider Golbez to be a better antagonist than Kefka in Final Fantasy IV? Yes. Because he has a connection. of the straight -up connection with Selis and why he's doing everything, they want to keep the crystals alive while he's actively destroying them. Did he destroy them for a good reason? Yes. But again, they don't know that, and so that makes him an antagonistic force to their goal. Interesting. I like that. The idea of antagonistic force, I think, really is a good separator for that. I think that makes a lot of sense. I like that a lot. times because Kefka is the top of the pile. There has never been a better vicious villain with no remorse who does everything you need him to to hate his guts and at the same time you're like, God, I love this guy because I hate him so much. There's something just very scary about that chaotic evil. You know what mean? Like that of that unreliable, just you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know what's gonna happen with Kefka and nor does he. He's just, he's just go, he's completely unreliable and yeah, unreliable and there's one more word I'm looking for and I've said a hundred times already. But anyway, he, he, yeah, there you go. Exactly. It's so funny because it's a game where you're like, I totally can predict it. No, you can't. The number of times in this game, again, knowing full well that I'm on a replay of it right now and just made it into the world of ruin, okay? The number of times already where I've had to quote fight Kefka, AKA slap him once and he goes, and runs away. Like, come on, man. There has never been a game that does it better where you end up against the villain who isn't the main villain, but then turns into the main villain, but he's not actually going to fight you. But he is, but he's not, but he is, but he's not, but he is, but he's not. And that laugh is iconic. Graphics are iconic, even retooled, remade additions. I'm like, no, you know what? Leave him as simple as he was. He was perfect as he is at all times. Perfect villain. He is. It's I just he's wonderful. And I and I absolutely love the love again his turn from he's the only villain. And this is not an original thought. This was from my conversation yesterday when my guest brought this up and it was brilliant. He said that Kefka is the only villain in Final Fantasy history that wins. Yeah. He wins. He wins. He in the world of ruin. He he beats you the floating continent and he gets what he wants becomes a deity and frying towns just because he's bored and there's nothing else better to do in this day and age now. The game could be split into two games so easily. I'm sure the mindset of whether so many people that like you know, they're they're doing this with rebirth. They're doing this for remake. They're doing this. They have to do that with six. They have to do it with Chrono Trigger. I'm of the mind that know they don't, because I know what they're gonna do with it, I know how they're gonna split it, and if they were gonna split it, the amount of content in six alone versus seven, and I'll say this and get anger and that's fine, it would take like 50 games to do it justice properly, but it could be split into two, and you would have one where Kefka wins, 100%. The end of the game is Kefka winning, and then the start of the game is this damn fish. my God, I hate myself. You've doomed us to a world of a fish gathering. In the course of my Final Fantasy six interviews, I often didn't even have to bring up Kefka. He just appeared out of the ether through natural conversation. Let's join Seth of the All In podcast, Tim Knowles, formerly of the leadest and Greg Stewart of the Player One podcast and Generation 16 series of videos as we discuss Kefka by way of his amazing theme and sinister laugh. Yeah, I always. The little moments like that always kind of stuck out to me. Of course, you know, yeah, there's the big scenes, you know, iconic scenes in this game. Yeah, like I remember like just this is also probably the first game that made me really appreciate video game music for the first time. I remember like with Kefka's the introduction of Kefka's theme, which is such a great little piece of music. It's Fantastic. It's It's so like, I think perfectly sums up Kefka's character, because it starts off this kind of like, you know, light carnival sort of thing. And but then it just goes like from zero to 100, like, and just kind of really kicks in the high gear. I remember being like scared of Kefka. And it's funny because now as an adult, it's easy to look at Kefka and be like, like he's kind of just the Joker. Like he's kind of just agent of chaos, whatever. And it's easy to sort of like write him off but man at the time like I was like I was terrified of Kefka in a way that I don't know that I've ever been Since of a Final Fantasy villain like a lot of the Final Fantasy villains kind of just wind up becoming like You know, whatever God at a certain point and Kefka kind of does too But he's scary like all the way up to the end. So yeah, I remember being scared of Kefka Kefka's still terrified Kefka's scared of that I sometimes say scarified. Kefka is scarified. Completely scarified of Kefka because he is an agent of chaos, like you said. I think unpredictability is very, very scary. When someone is a loose cannon, and more than just a loose cannon, he reminds me of like a Cormac McCarthy antagonist, like No Country for Old Someone who's living on a different set of morality and a different set of rules that you cannot sway from. So there is no rationalizing with Kefka. There is no bargaining with Kefka. Kefka has one goal in mind, and that is his morality. That is his set of rules. And that leads to this unpredictability to when he becomes a deity figure in the world of ruin, he's just blowing stuff up because he's got nothing else better to He's He's bored. He's got literally nothing to do. is all which is in itself a beautiful theme of all this power and nothing to use it on. Right. That's I think is a really crazy theme as well. So Kefka to me is terrifying more than more than a Sephiroth or more than I mean most antagonists in the Final Fantasy series. Kefka is someone who gets ultimate power and should never ever have Kefka should never have, Kefka should have a very strongly worded or a, he should have a very strong internet presence, like online presence. He should be on a lot of message boards and Facebook posts and he'd be beyond the neighborhood Facebook posts or next door just complaining about the HOA. Like he'd be really angry and incensed all the time, but no one wants to give that guy power. He has ultimate power and now can do. whatever he wants and chooses chaos, which is such a scary idea. I find Kefka absolutely terrifying. Yeah, I mean, it's a game where the bad guy wins. He wins and the game keeps going after that. I love it when a story keeps going. You could have ended the game at that point. He won. You know, like, and it almost, it's funny because like, it almost puts the characters in a nihilistic mindset of like, what's the point? He won. The world is destroyed. And like, they make that active choice that he, they cross that mental bridge that he's never able to, because the difference is, is that he has that ultimate power. And, you know, he is like, if we're continuing with the Joker comparison, he is the dog chasing cars and now that he's caught one, he doesn't know what to do. And so it's interesting because he never really had anything to live for or to die for either. And so that's kind of the point of difference between him and the main characters of the game because they both enter into that sort of hopeless mindset, but they make the active choice to fight against it and to save the world because it's worth it. a Kefka shirt for those who are not watching this. There is no video, so you will not be watching this. We'll be listening to this. My man is wearing a Kefka Palazzo shirt. And I ask everybody about Kefka because I really do believe he is the best Final Fantasy antagonist without poisoning the waters. With my opinion, what's your take on Kefka? You know, I think generally speaking in Final Fantasy games that I have played till the end, which is probably, I don't know, Mystic Quest, two, three, I'm sorry, four, six, I get confused still. That's fine. Seven, and I think that's about it. Okay, that's fine. I didn't continue on with the series much after that, to completion at least. Yeah. But as far as the bosses that I remember goes, Kefka was, I don't know, I kind of liken them to Christopher Nolan's Joker. He was just kind of like in it because he was, you know, lust for power, just plain evil for the sake of being evil. He didn't have to be nearly as evil as he was. And that was still conveyed to me. And I still understood that as a kid. Like I got, I understood why Doma Castle's waters turned purple. Like I got it. And he just laughed about it. And he laughed, which was amazing. That Kefka laugh It's timeless. And as I got older and I realized that not only was he just awful and evil and this lust for power, but in the process he won. Final Fantasy 3 or Final Fantasy 6, he won. And you're just kind of picking up the pieces of the rest of it. It's almost like the ending isn't even really necessary. It's optional. It's the end of the Dark Tower series, you know? Like, you can just... You could put it down as soon as... Or after you've had your fun in the World of Ruin and... Everything's already dead! Everything's already gone! There's no recovering from any of this. It's picking up where you're basically almost like in the Wasteland. It's almost like a fallout where you're kind of like... we're just rebuilding in the wasteland. But that wasteland is worth it. That wasteland is worth it. The people are worth it. And that's what you kind of go through. That's why you get the band back together in that world of ruin. Because at the end of the day, even though Kefka is now a deity zapping towns because why not? I have nothing else better to do. And then that's literally his motivation, which normally isn't what would be called a classic good motivation for an antagonist, like in a writing world. For some reason for Kefka, it works beautifully. And it was basically Kefka's coming of age story. That's essentially what that game was about. There's no main character within the protagonist because the antagonist had the most developed start to finish storyline. That's interesting take. I've never thought of it that way. That's interesting because you're right. That is the big question. Who's the main protagonist of Final Fantasy 6? there's a few obvious answers, but you can have that conversation. You have a good argument for Kefka being the most central character. he's involved in everything. He's the inciting incidents. He is, yeah, it's interesting. And he also, of all the characters in the game, has by far the best music of anything. Dancing Mad is, I mean, far and away my favorite Final Fantasy tune. I don't know if you've heard it, but anybody should look up the Black Mage's version. The Black Mages version of it is absolutely brilliant. It still makes my skin crawl every time I it. It's incredible. It's so good. Black Mages, I believe, is comprised of musicians and composers that actually were involved in the development of this music. I'm not mistaken. cool. OK. So it's kind of like a supergroup of that. Totally worth it. I was saying earlier about the opera scene and the sort of vocalization thing that they did, which wasn't all that far removed from something like, Mario in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, where he would come out and count. It felt very similar to that to me, but it was very effective. The greatest thing they ever did for any villain in Final Fantasy up to that point was give Kefka that laugh. Because you just it's ingrained in your mind from the second you meet him because in the first minute that you're you see him in a scene that's outside of the intro because he didn't say anything in the interest you standing in the background he does that laugh and Then almost every scene he's in after that he does that laugh and I mean as a character he looks pretty cool I mean, it looks like a court jester, right? And it translates okay in those little sprites and that's great, but he doesn't stand out except for that he's colorful. But man, you get that little smirk and the shake and that little like, and I'm all in. He was perfect right from the word go when he stepped onto the screen. He had so much personality and it didn't matter. It wasn't his dialogue and it wasn't his character sprite. It was that laugh. It was His laugh is absolutely brilliant. It's really a feat of sound design. It conveys so much and it's startling. I get that laugh and you'll hear it in the show. Editor Bill will put that in. But it's like, you'll hear it. It's unsettling. It's a very unsettling thing. For not being a voice sample, it's so completely sinister. Yeah, it's great. man, it just works. It sounds so silly to say it that way. And I feel like anyone who's never experienced it would be like, what are you talking about? Like this is ridiculous. Why would you? And even if you listen to it on this show and you hear the laugh, it might not even have that effect on you. But back then, again, when he stepped on the screen, it's like, all right, he's established himself as the villain in the game. I think even story -wise, he really isn't for quite a while. No, it's really more Emperor Gestahl. Yeah, it's Emperor against Slay. You really think you're against the Emperor, kind like a classic Star Wars rebellion story. Right. And then towards the world of Ruin, when he goes through and starts just completely messing everything up is when you realize, he is that agent of chaos. He's what we got to be worried about. But with that laugh, that characterization, I mean, he sends you that signal again within the first minute of stepping on the screen. You know he's important. You know there's unsettling and unhinged. I did a Final Fantasy VI episode very early on in this show, probably like one of the first 10 episodes, and I had asked, because I hadn't played it in a while, is Kefka a good villain? Because when you think about Kefka, as far as motivations go and things of that nature, you know, he's pretty one -noted, right? He just wants power. After giving it a lot more thought over the years, I've come to really like him as that... again, the agent Joker style character. What's your take on him as as an antagonist? I think you just I think you just called it. It's the Joker element. I mean, he's to me and maybe I'm wrong about this, but he's clearly based on the Joker. It's he's an agent of chaos. Right. And he's like, he's very single minded. I didn't care. I didn't care because he's so charismatic every time he's on screen and he's so bald faced evil. He's cartoonishly evil. Yeah, yes he is for sure. And there's nothing wrong with that, right? mean, the Joker is a great example. He's a very effective cartoonishly evil character as well. And that's fine. Lean into it. Have fun with it. Why not? I'm on board. And yes, please, let's just have this agent of chaos dogging me this entire game, destroying the world. That fits his character, sure. He doesn't care. He doesn't care what the outcome is. All he cares is that he gains more power and he doesn't care how many people die. He doesn't care if he cracks the earth open. Fine, I mean, it works for me. It is time once again to thank my amazing patrons for their amazing patronage. Starting with Philip Becker, Terry Kinnair, Greg Stewart of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos, Games with Coffee, The Let's Play Princess, BT Gobbles, Tim Knowles formerly of the Lidist, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Seth Sergel of the All In Podcast, and finally the one and only, fascinating and smashing, Pete Harney. If you'd like to join these amazing people and donate a few shekels to this fine podcast then by all means go to patreon .com forward slash a gamer looks at 4040. Check out the tiers and sign up today. And if not, a rating and review on your pod player of choice is always greatly appreciated. Let's jump back to the In episode I opened with a trigger warning because my guests and I got real about some rather sensitive topics. And now for the second show in a row it's time for another because you can't talk Kefka without uttering the name of another classic Final Fantasy villain, especially if you're claiming one is better than the So trigger warning to my Sephiroth stans out there. Ya boy gets knocked down a peg in the next segment by the one -two punch of music producer Mustin followed by content creator Mikhail Casanova. Apologies in advance. I'm going to talk real quick about who I think I am in my opinion, not to lead the conversation or insert my own opinions, but who I'm my favorite antagonist in all of Final Fantasy. is Kefka. So what's your take on Kefka? Are you a fan? What's your take on Kefka? You started this sentence by saying, I gotta real quick and then said Kefka. And you think by any means in this universe or the next that I'm going to be quick about it? No way, man. Go for go for it because there's going to be an entire Kefka episode. Okay. There's going be one episode just on Kefka because nobody can say something succinct about Kefka. I will be 28 % of it. Kefka is not only from what I, from what my experience, the best Final Fantasy villain, but one of the best villains in general. This First, let's correct all of you Sephiroth fanboys. That dude is not that cool, you know? The whole like blood room thing is neat, know? It's scary. I'll give it that. And he killed everybody in the room. Okay, okay, Kefka poisoned an entire kingdom, killing all of the people, whether they were children or adults, he killed them all. Okay, that's a full stop. Okay, your little red blood room. You know, the fact that he spiked a snake, know, Kefka, he took all of the espers and drained them of their power. That's like a million snakes. I don't get it, you know, it's just, and I don't want to be like, I hate to use like emo as a pejorative, so what could we say? Sure. He's like, he's just whiny and mama's boy. He's edgy. Okay, he killed Aerith. That's hardcore. And that was a huge moment in gaming history that will always be important. Kefka Palazzo succeeded. in destroying the world as we knew it. Don't compare that angsty little munchkin to this completely psychotic sociopath who cares nothing about anything. He's an extreme nihilist who goes around just killing things for fun because he doesn't He really just does not understand why anything matters. in the igniminy of being locked up in jail, he still just hasn't changed. He's pouting, but he was pouting outside. He's brooding, but he was brooding outside. He's chaos. It's very easy to compare him to the Joker, but the Joker has limits because he is essentially supposed to be a human. But Kefka is someone with magic, and so that gives him the superpower of being super powerful. the of just moving. When you get to that point and you see Emperor Gestahl like trying to like, you're going to screw everything up. And he's like, yeah, that's why we're here. And he just like kills the dude and kicks him off the island. It is so gangster, man. He just moves the statues just to do and then ruins the world. And there's just not been something like something like that in a game up until that point where you could like wrap your head around it, compartmentalize it so that whenever you wake up a year later and you're just Celeste and no one's around and you're on this tiny island, it is just a total kick in the jeans. Like what just happened? Is everybody dead? Am I dead? Is this heaven? Is this hell? I But this guy is so amazing at being evil, but also hilarious. That's what just... He has that riz about him where you're like, know, savans running after him. He's like, wait! And he says, wait, he says. Do I look like a waiter? And just runs away. You know, and he's mad about the sand on his boots and he just wants to hear him. He just wants to hear screaming. It's it. This is a bad guy. This is the best of the bad. That's absolutely how I feel. I love I love that that that idea of being the best of the bad. And I think what he really succeeds at is he's kind of like the like a lovable psychopath. Like you said, he's he's kind of a Tony Soprano. Like you know Tony Soprano is dangerous, but for some reason you really like him because he's funny and he's clever and he seems like a fun hang, but he's also no problem with murdering people. It is because and then he has that magic ability and it really does. There's so many parallels with the Joker and stuff, but he does share that unpredictability whenever the Joker is explaining to what would become Two -Face. He's like, I'm just a dog chasing a car. I wouldn't know what to do if I caught He's just doing it. He's just doing. He's just doing. And that's what you said about the statues. This is here. Gonna push it. It wouldn't even matter if it ruined him. It just mattered that he did what he wanted to do. And that's what is very scary. 100 % would not hang out with Kefka. Because if it was fun for a minute, I'd be dead in the next one. And just watching You know, and he's got the whole Slave Crown thing, he, you know, which I guess, you know, there's some parallel stuff with Sephiroth and whatnot, you know, I don't know, with all the little things where your part seeds or whatever it is in Final Fantasy VII. I really don't like that game. I'm sorry. I've tried it again when it came out on Switch it was like 17 bucks and I'm like, okay and I got ten hours in and then I was supposed to fight this monster and I'm just like I like when this monster came up I was like This is not fun. I don't want to do this and I turned it off never turn it on again, but there are some amazing pieces of music in that game and of course, it's very important to the the cultural zeitgeist of what video games have given to popular totally but This character, I think people really should know more about and play this game and come to understand what happened when he destroyed the world and watching those villages be torn apart and parents and children falling into the chasms to their death. he just, this is it. And then when you get to the top, he's like, When you get, which of course, I mean, this is amazing and like we haven't even talked about the last battle. When you get up there with all your characters and he's just like, why are you here? Like, what do you think you're gonna do? Like, what are you fighting for? And you know, they try to tell him and then he has that great famous line that Ted Woolsey, I mean, he nailed it. He's like, people sound like chapters of a self -help book. He just like is so mad and is throwing them around but then allows them because he's got nothing better to do to fight in the most amazing and I have right behind me this five foot banner of the entire Dancing Mad progression from the up to the all four parts of it and I just love it so much. I'm staring at Kefka this whole time I'm talking. My daughter got me for my birthday, these cool, somebody on Etsy doing like a pixel thing and then has a little stand. So I've got like this four foot tall Kefka laughing in my face right now. And yeah, I just, he's my favorite. I think of everybody, whether it's Dr. Wiley or Mr. X or Dracula or Gruntilda, like just nobody holds the candle. to the chaos of this character. And then you get to like see him a bunch, you get to fight him a bunch, you know. That's something that is also, and my god, just like that one part when you are in the masa and I can't remember what you're doing, but like there's no music and you just, you you just hear like, shoot. And that dude just comes down and then he starts destroying everything and taking the espers and turning him into Magisite. And you got Setzer over here making sure he's got his hair perfectly permed. I mean, I'm not talking about Sephiroth. Sephiroth? Yeah, he's over here. Sephiroth, well, know, he's got to make sure it fits on point. mean, it's, yeah. So I just, yeah, I can talk about it all day. I just love it. If you like... chaos and you want to see something that I don't know I'm not a huge gamer you know I was when I was young so I don't know what else out there but just to play a game and and and like I was saying part part daytime soap opera aimed at women part WWE soap opera aimed at men and you put that together and then you have this dude just He is entertaining. Entertaining in He's entertaining and... Yeah. Like, it's not good what he's doing, but it sure is entertaining. like, you know, that's the trouble with a lot of media is that I find it very entertaining, although it might be problematic. talks about the villains, the villains. There are no villains. There's a bunch of stupid characters. And then there is Kefka, the only villain who actually succeeded in destroying the world. How are we making any other comparisons? Like, I just don't understand. This dude set out to do something very, very bad. And then he did it. And like so many lives were ended and up until like the very end when you're trying to stop him, he's still antagonized and then uses his light of judgment to continue to fry people as you sit there and contemplate about why you still want to live. Absolutely incredible. The whole, like putting the whole like, mythos of everything into it. I mean, when you look at that last battle and see the parallel to Dante's, I mean, yeah, Dante's Divine Comedy and that last, like the first part of the battle is like this monster with his arms sticking out and you can't see his lower half and it's just very much represents the inferno where here's Satan and his, bottom half is below the ice. and you move up into where there's this mess of people. And it's hard to make out what's what, but you can tell that there's these bodily figures in a mass, which is the purgatory. And then once you beat that and you go up and it looks like Michelangelo's painting. What do you say? La Pied... I can't say it. I'm sorry. But that's what it looks like. You have the Madonna, you have the halo. It is the divine. And then it comes up to the freaking the top where Kefka comes down and Kefka who has his six wings like Lucifer. And what's the very first spell that he does? Fallen One. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. All of the way that it just incorporates like these interesting things that you study and you hear and you listen to, it's just fantastic. what a character from being so comedic. I mean, so many comparisons to the Joker, rightly so, in that he truly is a psychopath. The idea of trying to get soldiers to clean off his boots because they're covered in sand and they're marching through a desert. It's just so beautiful and so much better than little pretty boy emo Sephiroth. I don't understand. just, everything having to do with that character brought me so much. Like the dark side of me was represented in Kefka. He did, he went beyond the pale. Like he, like he, like he, the poisoning of the river, like to kill all of these people. It was just, there was nothing like that in Final Fantasy four. You know, there wasn't stuff like that in like, these like, it definitely didn't happen in Super Mario Twins, you know. It was so exciting to be a part of a story where there was really something at stake. And, and only to, and you fought him multiple times, which gave you this idea that he is fallible and that he can be destroyed, but he's just too wily and, and just gets away from you only to have him then finally double cross the person who put him in power and then actually disturb these these freaking goddesses for the sole purpose of creating chaos. And that's it. All he wants to do is just have the power and watch the chaos. Just watch the world burn. It's just fantastic. It's just not something you see a lot. Bowser's just taken Peach. We don't know what he does with her. I don't know where the Koopa Kids came from, but I'm telling you that this idea, this deity, this scoundrel, this psychopath is so much more interesting to me than any other video game characters. So that's what just kept me going and has me obsessed with it. And so while I am on my left arm, when I do have the money, I'm adding all these fun things that I love from movies and TV shows. I am saving my right arm, what I hope will be a giant sleeve, which will those three stages of the of the that final battle with Kefka up at the top here on the shoulder, which I think would just be so fantastic. That's my dedication to this game, its mythos, its characters and just how much it has been an integral part of my and developing my personality even, which is wild to say. for hours. Final Fantasy 6 does feature my favorite antagonist in the entire franchise which is Kefka. I think Kefka is wonderful and when I first did a Final Fantasy 6 episode very early in the podcast like maybe episode 10 or something I did one and I asked the question is Kefka a good villain? he a good antagonist? Because if you look at it on the face he can be very one Right. There's not a lot of complexity to Kefka. And in the year, since I've asked that question, I have, I no longer ask it because I think he's actually fantastic. What's your take on Kefka as a antagonist in Final Fantasy six? he's leagues. He's leagues above Sephiroth. That's for sure. I people like to say, Sephiroth is the greatest Final Fantasy villain. No, he's not. No, it's Kefka hands down. And you know, granted a lot of people can view him as a one note. If you don't pay attention, but if you pay attention, he has a very tragic backstory being experimented on and you know how that broke his mind. He is a very chaotically evil character and a chaotically evil character. And yes, I'm using some Shin Megami Tensei terms here because I'm a massive Shin Megami Tensei fan. If we want to talk about, you know, alignments, Kafka is the only Final Fantasy villain to No one else has ever won. He won. He destroyed the world and was like, I'm just going to sit up here. I got none. I did what I wanted to do. There is no rhyme or reason to his madness. He's crazy. He is what he is literally. And I feel like, you know, I'm not sure I mean, coming book nerves there are here, but like, you He's basically the Joker without the restraints of DC. He goes full bore to the other side of that pendulum and nobody is safe. Kefka is reminds me a lot of the antagonist of No Country for Old Men, Anton Sugar. Yes. In that he is unpredictable. Yet he lives by a set of moral codes that he holds strict to. And it's a moral set of moral codes that he will not deviate from. Which is why Anton Shigeru is so scary because he will not deviate from his mission because he holds fast to these beliefs and these moral codes. Kefka is like that in he is unpredictable and yes, all he wants is power and he doesn't really know why. There's no end game for him. There's The fact that he has no endgame and then becomes literally a deity in the second half of Final Fantasy 6, he's just up there zapping towns with the light of judgment for no reason. For no, literally no reason. Like why? I don't know. You annoyed me today. And that's so scary because that is a unreasonable thing. And I find that to be fascinating and terrifying. I think he is easily the most terrifying. Villainous even though he has doesn't have the most character depth as an agent of chaos That is he is phenomenal and I think there is a place in this world in fiction for agents of chaos Yeah, as clearly with Joker and others like that. I love so much. Yeah, and it's just You see how basically with Final Fantasy 7 with Sephiroth and as that character has evolved they pretty much lifted all of Kefka's characteristics, with the exception of his goofiness and clown like nature and just gave it to Sephiroth. Right. And I'm every time people say, Sephiroth's crazy, Bill and and da da da. Sephiroth keeps losing. Like I'm sorry if we had and people try to say, you know, he's the most powerful villain. I'm sorry Sephiroth never became a deity Kefka did and He had ultimate power like he had the ability to destroy Taffy he like you said he won and what's beautiful about that is and I can upset this before on the show is when he wins According to the language of video games you Which makes that whole scene of the floating continent so off -putting. I swear, when I first played that as a 14 -year -old, I thought I did something wrong. I want to reset the game. Like, wait a minute, I won. I won. I beat the big weapon. Yeah, he messed around with those statues, but I got off the floating continent, I beat the timer. According to the language of video games, I have succeeded. And now I'm by myself with Celis on the solitary island with a dying Cid. Where did I screw up? I got to go back and figure out where I screwed up. I don't like this result. Yeah. But there's nothing you can do. And that's so powerful. It's just so powerful. Yeah. The way that they subverted your expectations with that, was, and you would think like when you got to that point where he won, you're like, well, the game's over. What? Right. This is it? Like, well, short. No, that's just part one. That's just part one. That's just it. And there was nothing like that. There was nothing like that. Maybe fantasy start. maybe fantasy starts too. Yeah. But even in that era, though, he wouldn't have been playing both most likely. Yeah. Or a Genesis kid or a SES kid. But never fear friends, luckily the biggest Final Fantasy VII fan I know comes to the aid of our beleaguered silver -haired baddie. Let's join Ryan aka Games with Coffee as he makes a more favorable Kefka Sephiroth comparison, followed by more thoughts of friend of the show, Xurxys. Before we move on to other moments, are you a Kefka fan? I love Kefka. I think he's one of the greatest. Well, besides Sephiroth, he's one of the greatest villains to ever grace the RPG scene. All right. So you instantly memorable. Now, this is interesting. You put Sephiroth over Kefka. Well, OK, there's a little bit of bias on that. You're a loud bias, I mean that's totally I'm loud bias, I'm fine, I'm fine, but love, but Kafka is a villain, He is, he is like the magic joker. Basically. Maybe that's basically what he is, he's magic joker. And you just gotta, you just gotta appreciate just how utterly insane he is, but just how, how successful he is at using his insanity to further his own desires. That's all I can say about that, game respects game. Like, man, Kefka just, my gosh. I love it, man. Kefka is just is one of those characters I never quite understood until I was older. I didn't I liked Kefka fine, but I think I had a period in my life where I was like, you know, he's kind of simplistic, doesn't have that big, deep, dark backstory. It doesn't have this. And now I just love him. I just adore how he's constructed and what his point and purpose in the game itself, I think is really strong and good. Yeah, he's just he just he just does not give does not give a wit of about anything or anyone. It's his experimentation was just so, so egregious that he lost all sense of self and like the world. I don't care about Let's destroy it all and have fun with it with a laugh. He's unhinged and unpredictable and that's a very... you go. That's it. And that's very scary. I find him very scary. It's just unhinged and unpredictable is not a good thing for me. It's nerve wracking. Yeah, but the root, it's interesting because I know I said like, Sephiroth is kind of my, in my opinion, my number one. And part of it is due to bias. But part of it also, too, is because I've seen the insanity bit before in Sephiroth, but it's in a more of a different, more traumatic light than than Kefka. Kefka is just purely insane. Sephiroth is insane because of circumstances that May or may not have been under his control, correct? I swear to God it's funny too if if there were therapists in final in the world of Final Fantasy 7 None of this would ever happen If someone just sat down and talked to somebody none of these things would have happened. That's really funny if somebody sat down and talked to Sephiroth and be like, you know what I Hear you and I know it sucks But I can but I am here for you my friend I don't know about whatever else things, but that's that's just my opinion Are you a fan? Definitely a fan. mean, like Kefka, if it wasn't for Sephiroth, he would be the most iconic Final Fantasy boss. Final Fantasy end boss. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah, there's no question, especially in the public opinion, right? What about Kefka do you appreciate or like? He's a easy character. He's one of those great characters for me where you really like him, but you really loathe him. He's wonderful because he's likable, but he's hateable at the same time, which is such a good villain. It's kind what you want. Yeah, it's one of those things, you could definitely love to hate him. Of course he's got the iconic laugh, but he's one of those things where he's a deserved, he's almost like a deserved bad guy in a way. He's one of those things where it's not like he just kind of like, he doesn't just kind of come up out of nowhere. He's, like, you you start, you know, like when you first see him out in the desert and everything, you know, like he looks like almost like a comic relief character. But, and then you find out later when you're doing the raid on the Magitek factory that, hey, he was the first person to go through the same process that Cellus went through later. And, So it's like, okay, maybe he's not, so even though you kind of just made him run away with one hit in the in the Sabin scenario. It's like, you you don't really like think too highly of him. It's not until like later on where it's like he goes toe to toe with General Leo, who like most people like hold in highest regard as like one of the best soldiers for the empire. And then, to follow that up, he starts going, after he's taken out General Leo, he starts going toe to toe with the espers. And he's able to single -handedly fight against this entire wave of espers and turn them all into Magisite. So like, it comes time for when he decides that, hey, I'm going to be the main character now and removes the emperor and just decides that I want to screw everything up and move these statues around. That's like, okay, you know, it's like, guy feels like. a true, you know, like a true bad guy that needs to be stopped. Absolutely. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think what I'm getting from this conversation is that He's a villain of opportunity, he's also a villain of... He never seems to have a good plan in place. He's kind of living in the moment. But he also has this kind of unwavering sense of almost morality. know, like he flies by the seat of his pants, but he's got a true direction if there's anything. So he's very interesting character. He's got a lot of contradictions. inherently in him, which makes him very interesting to just hang out with. How do you, what's your take, how did you feel about that final encounter? with Kefka when you basically encounter him as a four, three, four stage deity. Yeah, when that happened, it's like, you know, like, pretty, like you do that first encounter and it's like, okay, hey, list your people in order. It's like, wait a minute, I'm going to be fighting. I have to fight him with all my characters. It's like, okay, this is, this, this is not going to be a joke. No, it is not. So like and then you go into it. Of course this you know, in my first playthrough I didn't like I didn't power level. It's like, you know, I didn't really like distribute my gear Well, I went in there and yeah, I think my first my first attempt I think I probably got to like the second or third like second or third aspect before I Was killed before I was killed off. Yeah, and so like it had to like retool my entire strategy And then you're like then like you're like that later attempt you have that you know like You you get to that you get to that point where you're like in that fight You know like that final phase and then he just like he starts he just has that like iconic Attack where just knocks you all down to one hit point at the very start like it's such a disheartening attack It's like I have to go up against this As I was going through the Kefka audio my main goal was multiple perspectives and to a point that's the central drive of this show in general right, many people with different perspectives even if they're all generally positive. But something in me said I need to talk to a Kefka cosplayer. Because it's one thing to be a fan, it's quite another to identify so closely with the character that you spend hours crafting a likeness and a persona. So what did? To close out this episode, let's meet Kefka Cosplayer Yurik. You can find his work on Instagram and TikTok at Yurik Arcady and his links will be in the show notes as he shares stories of playing the evil Jester at conventions and why he chose to do so in the first place. I always liken, I've Kefka to, and I've said this a few times, so apologies to editors, my editor friends, because they pour them, they have to hear me say the same thing a hundred times to different people. I liken him the character Anton Shiger from No Country for All Men. Yeah, I can see that. In that he has this single minded morality that is different from yours, but he adheres to it, clings to it, and he can't be shifted from it. And that makes him very unpredictable, and that's very scary. Unpredictable with power is an extremely scary combination because you can't reason with it. There's no reasoning with Kefka. Because Kefka, he's now a deity in the world And he's almost a blow up mobiles because why not? I'm with my light of judgment. I'm just gonna do it. No reason and that is a terrifying wild card to have with that kind of power. So I find Kefka terrifying. Yeah, it's like it's worse with them because there's all the other towns that are like totally fine So he's not just like I'm gonna wipe out everything He's like I'm gonna let them live and then I'm gonna mess with them right and like that No, that's so much worse because you never know when the the hammer is gonna drop It also reminds me a bit of light of again, this may be a slightly flambas terrier reference, but am from I have no mouth, but I must scream, which is that Harlan Ellison short story. It's such a good game. you played the game? Yeah, I have played a game. It's actually a very solid game. It's actually a pretty good game. But it reminds me of an in that sense to where am his he's got this single minded thing. He's a toy with you and you never know when the hammer is going to come down and how it's going to come down. And in his view, he's punishing you like because they're all on there for a reason. Yep, they're on there for a reason, exactly. And I think Kevka's motivations are probably a little more simple and it's just, he's just, it's very Joker -style and I've heard that analogy, it's not an original one, very Joker -esque where it's just like this agent of chaos who gets this ultimate power and wields it however they want and you cannot reason with them. There's no like, hey, can you spare me? Because he's not concerned about that. You don't know what it's inside. It's terrifying to me. That character. Yeah, I think it's stronger if you know nothing about him. Like the Joker, like you never know his backstory. just, he's multiple choice. Like who knows? And I did a Final Fantasy 6 episode super early in this podcast, like two and a half, three years ago at this point. And I think I posited... Is Kefka a good character? Because he is pretty one -noted, right? He doesn't have this intricate backstory. And over the years, my 10, my, I've changed on that and said, yes, he is because he's fascinating because of that ambiguity. That's why he's interesting and good. I think a big part of it is like if you can look at a character and be like if I lived in this world would I be afraid of him? And if the answer is yes, he's probably a good character. Yeah, totally. Yes. Yes. That's great way putting it. If he lived in this world, would you be afraid? Yes. Yes, I would. I am afraid of Elon Musk. I'm sorry. He's a crazy man with power and money. He can do whatever he wants. That's not good. That's not a good thing. Not fun. Yeah, so I love that. I love that. I feel but yeah, I'd love to some Kefka related cosplay stuff. That'd be fun. Yeah. Yeah, probably the funniest is all the people I got mistaken for when I was Kefka. Somebody thought it was David Bowie. Like I was doing some kind of David Bowie costume. Someone at the time thought it was Pennywise, but this was like this was like OG Pennywise right from like the Tim Curry. And there was like all sorts and like you take it in stride. Like I thought it was funny at the time. I still think it's funny now. I don't know if you were like an online comic reader or not. If you've heard of the webcomic VGCats. Okay. It was a big comic like around. They probably had like three updates since like 2006. The webcomic artist was actually at the con that I was Kefka at and I was going to ask him to buy like a copy of his comic. But when he saw me, he just gave me one. He drew a little Kefka in it and signed it for free. Wow. fun is that? Yeah, and was like, he's a big retro gamer. And so it was really cool. He's Canadian, like I am. And so seeing him at the con, which we didn't expect to see him there, was cool. And then the fact that he recognized me. And that's like... That's part of the retro game thing for me is everybody has such a strong reaction to seeing stuff like that, and there's a big community feel to it, because we're all ancient now. We are all aged. you're right, the community of it is fascinating to me, and that's what I've always loved about cosplay, is that it's such a supportive community. Definitely. everyone is there to help each other out. My wife worked in fashion for a very long time. went to FIT in New York and she worked in fashion for about a decade. So I'm always like, Jane, we should do some sort of cosplay at some point. Again, we'd love to. But I just know the work because I also worked in fashion for a while. So I understand. I understand the work that requires in making those things. those things when they don't just how much time you say, how much time do you think you spent on that that Kefka costume? I was actually about to say is when I put that costume together with my grandmother, we had no like references at all. Like the only references was like the Amano sketch. Like the one sketch of him like in profile and the PlayStation cutscene. That one of him from the opening where he's got the makeup on his face. And so like me and her were like looking at this trying to figure out like what is this thing that's on him and like trying to put it together. And now we look at like the 3D renders from like Dissidia and like the 14 like Raid and stuff. we're like, we're actually, I look at him like we were pretty close like to what he actually looks very cool Super important and now it's just kind of like a bit of an inconvenience when I do like a green screen stuff because there's so many different colors to like no, you're right. Sure. my gosh, I can imagine And that just about does it for this edition of A Gamer Looks at 40. If you liked this episode, there's a heap of other Final Fantasy content out there. I don't know how many episodes, just go and look it up. It's all out there. If you go to my website, agamerlooksat40 .com, there is a section for full episode playlists. You can find all of the Final Fantasy episodes grouped there in one player, so you can just binge it during your next work events or meeting that you don't want to pay attention to. to Pete Harney and Kev from the Discord for helping me cut up these interviews. Thank you again to my wonderful patrons and thank you for listening to A Gamer Looks At 40. You could be doing anything else with your precious time, but you're choosing to spend it with me and that never goes unnoticed. Thanks again and until next time.